Considering first gen toyota?

[piffey263]

hello everyone,

don't shoot me for this common question...

i'm considering/looking into picking up a first gen and what some opinions on them?

I know they are reliable, and with any vehicle at that age suspension is going to be shot among other things..

what I'm wondering is how do those little 22re do on the HWY at 65?
are parts available in other countries? such as mexico and south america I am assuming yes?
This would be a big thing for me because I have a cj5 that I would drive to another country but the fact that I have problems getting parts in US tells me bad idea.
any endearing quality's they typically have?
when loaded down with gear whats the MPG? I'm not expecting a magical number i'm assuming around 17?

what is drawing me to them is the fact they are fairly cheap, easy to work on. I like the fact I found a couple places to get re-manufactured engines for under 2k.

My buddy has one so I have a good understanding of them but his is in opposite direction a non street legal rock crawler so hard to gauge it. Plus he has carb problems lol (I believe that is him because I owned a few carbed vehicles and had no issues ex65 chevy, and 66 cj5)

I was considering a 4 runner for longest time with v6, but I realized ability to have a truck would benefit more


thank you,

 

[tanglefoot]

They are great trucks, and even the original springs still usually hold up fine--they were built better back then.

The 1st gen 4wd truck (1979-1983) won't have a 22RE yet. It'll have either the 2.2L 20R (1979-1980) or the 2.4L 22R (1981+), both carbureted. When in good running condition, they'll certainly do 65 mph on the flats. They cruise more happily at 55 mph though. In order to get the fuel-injected 22RE, you need to get into a 2nd-gen (1984-1988). The 22RE was optional in Trucks and standard in 1985 and newer 4runners.

Parts availability is pretty good, no matter where you go. They're still commonly in use.

Fuel economy when loaded will likely be about what you expect--around 17 mpg.

The 1984-1989 4Runner can also be used as a pickup pretty easily. They're very versatile. I have a truck camper in mine. The fuel-injected 22RE does a bit better on fuel than the 20R and 22R. With the 22RE and 5-speed, I average right around 20 mpg no matter how loaded down it is.

The early V6 (3VZ-E 3.0L) is not one of Toyota's better engines. It's alright, but it definitely doesn't have the rock star reputation that the 22R and 22RE have. It had some issues with head gaskets and it doesn't produce that much extra power for its extra weight and fuel consumption.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The 1st gens rusted pretty fast, particularly the pickup bed. Expect to do some patching with most of them.

The 79-80 had a 4 speed transmission (L43), the 81-82 had a 5 speed L50. Neither are spectacular but workable. The L50 in particular had an undersized input bearing that was prone to wear quickly. If you're into wrenching the G52 is a nice upgrade that doesn't take a ton of work to fit. Marlin can build a heavy duty G52 that is essentially bulletproof.

Realize that all 79-83 are regular cabs and not very roomy. If you're tall make sure to sit in one first.

The earlier trucks had 3.90 gears in some cases, which is IMHO a little tall. Toyota in 1984 settled on 4.10 as the baseline with 225/75R15 and that is a better match. The thought I assume was lowest revs possible, but the 20/22R likes to be up in RPM and I find it gets the best mileage while working at about 2,500 to 2,700 RPM. So 4.10 gears in overdrive with 30" tires is just about perfect.

 

[Dwill817]

I actually bought one yesterday. I love it and they can be found without rust if your willing to pay the premium. Mine is actually my daily driver!

I have the 22r and it cruises at 65 just fine. Suspension still feels alright. The front is sagging a little and its best to expect to have to change a seal or two. Engine parts are easy to find in the US.

I actually ran it up to about 80 mph on the highway just to test it and it still drove fine, granted the RPM's were high! Its no speed demon but it has plenty of power to cruise around town and backroads. I haven't had it long enough to test the gas mileage.

Try to find an SR5. They came factory with A/C, power steering, tilt, a sunroof, and several other odds and ends.

 

[OSV]

I just returned from a 500 mile trip, i'm averaging 16.2 mpg, it's a heavily modded 1986 4runner with a solid axle front end modification, dual transfer cases, lockers front and back, and 37" tires... you want the 5-speed transmission.

these little motors really gasp quite hard at altitude and on hills, but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

if you need more power, step up to later model tacomas and such, with the 2.7 motor.

 

[Snorkeld_Zuk]

I love my 88 4Runner. It's not close to stock, but it has a 3.4L V6 Tacoma motor, solid front axle swap, 37" Iroks, locked front and rear. Goes places you wouldn't imagine. Has room to sleep in the back, insanely dependable. Best of all I can go topless in the summer.

 

[piffey263]

I'm liking these answers
I believe I might have to go threw with this and start looking around for one.

Tanglefoot: thanks for the break down, that really helps.

Dave:I have sat in a 83 and room seems to be of no issue, I'm used to jeeps. There is no room in jeeps and 65 on flat is umm questionable. Steering in an older cj takes some getting used to lol

OSV:16 mpg with 37's..... I'm lucky if I can get that in a jeep that is perfectly tuned with 30's
this 2.7 is it still the 22R?

Dwill: AC I like the idea, its been a good 8 years sense I have had vehicle with AC. Yes, I expect to change a few things with any vehicle. Seals just don't last.

Snorkeld:I can believe it, my buddy is building his 83 for rockcrawling but is not street legal. My buddy gave up on all the vacuum hoses.
I believe i'm figuring out what to look for now.


I was looking for campers for these trucks are they non-existent? I know I could go with four runner but I don't see them come up to often over here in California.
Any good performance upgrades on these while keeping street legal?
what do they rev too? before you get valve float or point of diminishing return?
does the non solid axle have any limitations?
how loud are they on the HWY? this i'm really curious about. Easy conversation no yelling?

 

[Martinjmpr]

Pros and cons...

The very first new vehicle I ever owned was a 1985 Toyota 4x4 pickup. 22r (carbureted) engine, 5 speed, no radio, vinyl seat - a real base model. Purchased in May of 1985 and wrecked in August or September of 1986. I did, however, put almost 30,000 miles on it in that time (I liked to drive and gas was relatively cheap then.)

Here's a photo of me with it in November of 85 between Dillon and Kremmling on CO highway 9 in Colorado:

As far as MPG, I was obsessive about tracking my MPG (and still am) and I remember regularly getting 25mpg on the highway and over 20 in the city. Obviously this was on stock tires which I think were probably 215/70/15s or something like that. It was fun to drive, and being a new vehicle to a 23 year old, of course I loved it.

Cons: The sheet metal was paper thin. It felt pretty "tinny" every time you shut the door. The 22r was no powerhouse and required a lot of shifting (I don't understand how people can drive a 22r equipped vehicle with a slushbox - they probably get passed by VW buses. )

Every one I see today has a badly rusted bed. Here's the story I heard years ago on the bed:

Some time in the 1960's a punitive tariff was put on imported trucks, to retaliate for import tariffs other countries put on US raised chickens (which is why this tariff is called the "chicken tax.") The tax is only levied on fully assembled trucks. So in the days before Toyota and the other Japanese companies set up manufacturing facilities in the US, they would ship pickup cab-and-chassis, with no bed, to the US. Because they had no bed, they were "unassembled" and not subject to the tax. Once in the US, a US sourced bed would be bolted on (this also explains why the beds on US trucks from this era look completely different from beds on trucks in other parts of the world.)

The problem with the beds is that they were not as well rust proofed as the rest of the vehicle so the bed is always the first part to rust on these old trucks (honestly, I don't even think I'd call this a mistake or a design flaw - we're talking about trucks that were made ~30 years ago, the bed certainly lasted as long as one could reasonably expect a truck bed to last in normal usage. Nobody back then really expected a light truck to last 30 years or 500,000 miles.)

 

[Dwill817]

To answer your last few questions, it's all about wants and needs. Yeah they are a little loud but hey you are driving a 30 year old vehicle with no sound deadning, but I don't find the need to yell. Unless your doing some serious rock crawling you will not be limited by IFS. Heck, if your gonna be exploring and driving service roads I suggest IFS it's much smoother than a straight axle. I just wanted a first gen Toyota so now I just slow down and enjoy creeping along so it's not as rough. There are tons of performance upgrades. Check out lcengineering they have tons of stuff. These a a slow down and put around and enjoy driving a piece of history vehicle. And surely you can find a California vehicle with no rust.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Heck, if your gonna be exploring and driving service roads I suggest IFS it's much smoother than a straight axle.

I agree with this. As much as people exalt the solid-front-axle suspension, they really suck on washboard. I'm reminded of that every time we drive my wife's Wrangler anywhere.

 

[OSV]

I'm liking these answers
this 2.7 is it still the 22R?

2.7 is an entirely new design, it's 4 cylinders, but I think that it's 4 valves per cylinder instead of 2, maybe 150+ h.p.??... you should be able to get 'em in the earlier tacomas and such? throw one of those 4-wheeler campers on the back of a Tacoma, you got it made.

the motor to avoid is the 3vze, also known as the 3slo... the 3.4 motor would be a really good thing to get.

I think that you have to have goals for what you want to do with the truck, and buy accordingly... I just got back from the rubicon trail, i saw only one ifs-equipped truck on that trail, all of the locals pretty much run straight front axles with big tires... ifs doesn't hold up to serious use, it has a 7.5" ring & pinion, vs. 8" on the solid front axle trucks... and of course there isn't any comparison in axle durabilities between the two... with sfa, you can get longfield or trail gear axles/birfs, but there isn't a lot of aftermarket support for ifs axles.

on the other hand, if i lived in anza Borrego, and i wanted to go fast in the desert, no question i'd run a long-travel ifs truck.

 

[OSV]

I agree with this. As much as people exalt the solid-front-axle suspension, they really suck on washboard. I'm reminded of that every time we drive my wife's Wrangler anywhere.

what tire pressure are you running on washboard roads? it makes a huge difference in ride quality... most people don't bother airing down.

with 37's and York oba, i can drop tire pressure way down, and air it back up quickly.

 

[Martinjmpr]

what tire pressure are you running on washboard roads? it makes a huge difference in ride quality... most people don't bother airing down.

with 37's and York oba, i can drop tire pressure way down, and air it back up quickly.

We always air down, typically ~ 15 to 20 PSI. Yes, it helps but washboard still sucks with SFA compared to IFS.

 

[Dwill817]

I've never aired down on washboard roads. but I've owned a SFA rig for what 3 days now! Lol I'm gonna try it out though!

 

[piffey263]

thanks martinjmpr, that is good to know. btw the stock 95 yj I had was the same say (well my father's, I just drove it for 4 years). I looked at suspension and the bumpstop where an inch away from springs. You could see that the bump stops come in contact quite often. Funny thing is, I was told the YJ's have good leafsprings but I prefer the cj5 because there is no jarring going down a cement road.

dwill817: yeah most I will be exploring and driving service roads. I want a vehicle I can just jump in and drive.

Thanks for clarification OSV


I think I will have to slowly start looking now. I have a much better idea, for what I want and plan to do. I think the IFS would work just fine for me.
If I happen to snag one of these Toyota's I will make a build thread over here. Might be a few months for me to purchase one.