Decisions more and more
- Thread starter LK17
- Start date
Omar Brannstrom
Adventurer
Yes I know
I have some feeling sometimes that people that dont like Jeep, might had some bad experience with Jeeps maybe 10 to 40 years back. New Jeeps are not the same as old ones and nowdays when Fiat group is behind Jeep I think the quality is better. Fiat Group also own Ferrari and Maserati.Other stuff is that Landcruiser and Landrover Discovery cost about 2-3 times more than a Wrangler and have higher maintinance costs and do not have so much and low priced after market stuff.
I think OP should do a test drive with a new Wrangler unlimited, free of charge:victory:
If Wrangler was crap they would not sell so many as they do, the demand is higher than the can produce.
I think for some americans that it is greener on the other side, I mean it is more intresting with vehicles from other countries, more exotic.
I think some Wrangler owners wheels theres wranglers pretty hard compared to other brands.
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Omar Brannstrom
Adventurer
Intresting article
http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/americas-best-expidition-value-1623325163
Toyota 4runner trail looks rather nice, but I think Wrangler looks better and a have a cool rear spare.
http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/americas-best-expidition-value-1623325163
Toyota 4runner trail looks rather nice, but I think Wrangler looks better and a have a cool rear spare.
Omar Brannstrom
Adventurer
Omar Brannstrom
Adventurer
I have to ad, that 2011 Wrangler got a new interior and seats. 2012 got a new engine the Pentastar and new auto. I think they changed the seats again in 2013. In 2015 it got a better stereo system.
Gibraltar Sean
New member
Hi all, first off, I drive Land Rovers (LR) and love em! but I really think I gonna post something in favour of LR, but unbiased.... here goes...
As stated I have driven LR for several years now, and have the means to drive & own Land Cruisers (LC) if I wanted. I have driven thousands of 'African' miles in both LR & LC. I have driven with work, new-ish $100.000 V8 LC diesels and after 5/6 weeks of good track (at worst) driving, it sounded like someone had thrown a bucket of sand down the oil filler!, but when running well it was beautiful - fast & quiet, if thats what you want. The LC Troopy, too sounded a bit 'gratey' after a month or so of the same driving conditions, but this Troopy was field serviced and back to regular duty, no problems. The troopy was about 10 years old, I believe (don't quote me as I'm no 'spotter' on models / engines etc...) it was one of the first Turbo 4.2 ltr LC units. Now, the LR's being seen as a poor mans truck and not on loan like the LC's, thus the Defender's got hammered on all sorts of terrain, several tyres were replaced due to lacerations etc... especially the Defender Wolfs, (remember, we are talking Africa here, & these LR's are about 10+ years old too...) relatively minimal maintenance required, but the use was in a different league altogether. Now my personal LR's, both 1998 300TDI's, mine a D 110, and the wife's a Disco 1 auto box. Two very different trucks, the Disco is 'nicer' round town & hugely quieter, (but the Defender is not sound proofed at the moment) they are both old cars, I have had a lot of fixing on the Defender, but the Disco has been great.. (remember, same engine) I recently spent several hundred pounds on a Turner Engineering performance head, as I had a few probs with the original, these are the moments when one looks to the dark side and considers the 'what if' I had gone with LC? but then in random chat with a LC 80 series owner (friend of mine) I was explaining my upgrade (which I could have replaced OEM for half the cost of the performance head...) & low and behold, matey tells me that his LC cylinder head was in a 'non specialist' workshop for a rebuild and valve seats polished etc, etc, cost £1000+ not including on/off labour! so, my point is everything mechanical has a lifespan irrespective of make in real world terms! I could offer more comparisons, but we'd all be here all night long. So, consider the brand new performance LR cost versus LC rebuild cost? In my opinion at worst it's a case of 'horses for courses' So, as a driver of both rigs over prolonged periods which would I choose? well, I adore that straight six cylinder 4.2 ltr Troopy. It truly inspires a feeling of once that key is turned, you can drive it 6 times around the world non stop bar fuel re-fills. For me it is comfortable and relatively quiet, and if God descended from above and said Sean you can choose one car and IT MUST BE STOCK (standard, no conversions) I would probably go for one of the first Turbo Troopys... and I would still like to own one, one of these days BUT... (and I'm not sure how to explain why) I would never consider selling my Defender for one! I'm really not convinced the LC is as good as the LR off road ( I really don't want to create a firestorm here) and this is what I think about LR's, those smaller engines might be an own goal by LR, BUT I have been severe off roading with both rigs and the LR has done things the LC has not (stock-ish motors here) but, my opinion is when worked hard the LR engine has tighter left and right out of bounds parameters which one MUST comply with, but with a well maintained & serviced unit these boundaries are hard to find and thus negligible. In my experience, bar Defender's LR is a cheaper rig option and thus bought (in my circles) as a use and abuse, batter & beat up motor which often takes a lot more thrash than other makes do (just a personal observation in my case/ area...) so my point here is one will note a lot more brake downs, but they are as said 'hammered' and generally badly serviced and badly maintained vehicles. Also, considering what I have said about the off road driving, are the LR engineers that far off the mark anyway? LC also have smaller engine units themselves such as the 3 ltr and like wise those clever German engineers over at Mercedes' have exhibited a similar thought process too. Without wanting to open up the BHP versus torque debate, who knows? I'm the first to claim I'm just a driver, not a wizard, but I would not of minded a 'bigger' option from LR. What I do observe is I like the Troopy on motorway mile crunching rather than the Defender, Troopy versus my wifes Disco 1? no real difference to be honest. Now for the difficult bit. WHY DO I WEAR A CONSTANT SMILE WITH MY BLOODY DEFENDER? why? this may not make sense unless, like me you are an unfortunate soul that has been infected by the LR plague, and it truly is a disease :victory: I like the nod and the flash when on the road from fellow family brethren LR owner's. I like the LR camaraderie, I like the LR friendships that happen spontaneously on the road, I like last weeks visit to see a friend in his motor home on a campsite in Tarifa, Southern Spain, and a local saw my Defender, came over to chat, a Spaniard, a different language, but no problem cos we both roll in Rover's, I like that when he left, he turned up an hour later with another dude, a German guy with his Defender, I like the couple of hours that passed and I like the exchange of telephone numbers and I like the future meets that have not happened yet! I really like the spanner and cups of tea sessions and the non comital help from like minded LR individuals. I heard somewhere about a 4x4 guide who delivers tours in Morocco. He noted that on a trip with LC owner's one of the group had severe mechanical problems. The group agreed to leave the guys (safe at a garage) while the car was fixed and they would carry on (maybe a fair one, everyone has paid money, I not disrespecting the decision here...) they agreed to re-meet when fixed. The guide noted that when he was with a LR group of people, they were in & out of each others engine bays, comparing / discussing camp / overland set ups & generally a more integrated bunch with less group management requirements, pulling together & sorting each other out... Basically Land Rover is family! no I mean it, it will probably become part of YOUR immediate family if you buy one - happiness!
As stated I have driven LR for several years now, and have the means to drive & own Land Cruisers (LC) if I wanted. I have driven thousands of 'African' miles in both LR & LC. I have driven with work, new-ish $100.000 V8 LC diesels and after 5/6 weeks of good track (at worst) driving, it sounded like someone had thrown a bucket of sand down the oil filler!, but when running well it was beautiful - fast & quiet, if thats what you want. The LC Troopy, too sounded a bit 'gratey' after a month or so of the same driving conditions, but this Troopy was field serviced and back to regular duty, no problems. The troopy was about 10 years old, I believe (don't quote me as I'm no 'spotter' on models / engines etc...) it was one of the first Turbo 4.2 ltr LC units. Now, the LR's being seen as a poor mans truck and not on loan like the LC's, thus the Defender's got hammered on all sorts of terrain, several tyres were replaced due to lacerations etc... especially the Defender Wolfs, (remember, we are talking Africa here, & these LR's are about 10+ years old too...) relatively minimal maintenance required, but the use was in a different league altogether. Now my personal LR's, both 1998 300TDI's, mine a D 110, and the wife's a Disco 1 auto box. Two very different trucks, the Disco is 'nicer' round town & hugely quieter, (but the Defender is not sound proofed at the moment) they are both old cars, I have had a lot of fixing on the Defender, but the Disco has been great.. (remember, same engine) I recently spent several hundred pounds on a Turner Engineering performance head, as I had a few probs with the original, these are the moments when one looks to the dark side and considers the 'what if' I had gone with LC? but then in random chat with a LC 80 series owner (friend of mine) I was explaining my upgrade (which I could have replaced OEM for half the cost of the performance head...) & low and behold, matey tells me that his LC cylinder head was in a 'non specialist' workshop for a rebuild and valve seats polished etc, etc, cost £1000+ not including on/off labour! so, my point is everything mechanical has a lifespan irrespective of make in real world terms! I could offer more comparisons, but we'd all be here all night long. So, consider the brand new performance LR cost versus LC rebuild cost? In my opinion at worst it's a case of 'horses for courses' So, as a driver of both rigs over prolonged periods which would I choose? well, I adore that straight six cylinder 4.2 ltr Troopy. It truly inspires a feeling of once that key is turned, you can drive it 6 times around the world non stop bar fuel re-fills. For me it is comfortable and relatively quiet, and if God descended from above and said Sean you can choose one car and IT MUST BE STOCK (standard, no conversions) I would probably go for one of the first Turbo Troopys... and I would still like to own one, one of these days BUT... (and I'm not sure how to explain why) I would never consider selling my Defender for one! I'm really not convinced the LC is as good as the LR off road ( I really don't want to create a firestorm here) and this is what I think about LR's, those smaller engines might be an own goal by LR, BUT I have been severe off roading with both rigs and the LR has done things the LC has not (stock-ish motors here) but, my opinion is when worked hard the LR engine has tighter left and right out of bounds parameters which one MUST comply with, but with a well maintained & serviced unit these boundaries are hard to find and thus negligible. In my experience, bar Defender's LR is a cheaper rig option and thus bought (in my circles) as a use and abuse, batter & beat up motor which often takes a lot more thrash than other makes do (just a personal observation in my case/ area...) so my point here is one will note a lot more brake downs, but they are as said 'hammered' and generally badly serviced and badly maintained vehicles. Also, considering what I have said about the off road driving, are the LR engineers that far off the mark anyway? LC also have smaller engine units themselves such as the 3 ltr and like wise those clever German engineers over at Mercedes' have exhibited a similar thought process too. Without wanting to open up the BHP versus torque debate, who knows? I'm the first to claim I'm just a driver, not a wizard, but I would not of minded a 'bigger' option from LR. What I do observe is I like the Troopy on motorway mile crunching rather than the Defender, Troopy versus my wifes Disco 1? no real difference to be honest. Now for the difficult bit. WHY DO I WEAR A CONSTANT SMILE WITH MY BLOODY DEFENDER? why? this may not make sense unless, like me you are an unfortunate soul that has been infected by the LR plague, and it truly is a disease :victory: I like the nod and the flash when on the road from fellow family brethren LR owner's. I like the LR camaraderie, I like the LR friendships that happen spontaneously on the road, I like last weeks visit to see a friend in his motor home on a campsite in Tarifa, Southern Spain, and a local saw my Defender, came over to chat, a Spaniard, a different language, but no problem cos we both roll in Rover's, I like that when he left, he turned up an hour later with another dude, a German guy with his Defender, I like the couple of hours that passed and I like the exchange of telephone numbers and I like the future meets that have not happened yet! I really like the spanner and cups of tea sessions and the non comital help from like minded LR individuals. I heard somewhere about a 4x4 guide who delivers tours in Morocco. He noted that on a trip with LC owner's one of the group had severe mechanical problems. The group agreed to leave the guys (safe at a garage) while the car was fixed and they would carry on (maybe a fair one, everyone has paid money, I not disrespecting the decision here...) they agreed to re-meet when fixed. The guide noted that when he was with a LR group of people, they were in & out of each others engine bays, comparing / discussing camp / overland set ups & generally a more integrated bunch with less group management requirements, pulling together & sorting each other out... Basically Land Rover is family! no I mean it, it will probably become part of YOUR immediate family if you buy one - happiness!
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Omar Brannstrom
Adventurer
Hi
A tip, Please read Tom Sheppards books they are amazing and he have more than 40 years of expedition travel.
I find it intresting and a good verdict that Tom Sheppard choose a 2 door 2012 Jeep Wrangler as his expedition vehicle and he knows almost everything about every 4x4 vehicle out there. In some way he thought the Wrangler was the best out there for him.
He have had several Landrovers, think Defender is to old? had Gelandewagen.
His new Jeep
http://overlandexpo.squarespace.com/overland-tech-travel/2012/10/14/tom-sheppards-new-vehicle.html
"Author, Tom Sheppard,
ex Royal Air Force test pilot and 4x4 consultant to a major manufacturer, has accumulated more than 100,000 desert and overlanding miles over the years. He led the expedition that made the first coast-to-coast crossing of the Sahara, Atlantic to the Red Sea, for which he gained a Royal Geographical Society award."
The founder of Expeditionportal Scott Brady with Tom Sheppard
With his former Gelandewagen
Very nice books
Some info
http://www.desertwinds.co.uk/
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/34976-Tom-Sheppard-and-his-G-Wagen
http://www.trucktrend.com/features/163_0702_mercedes_benz_g_class/
A tip, Please read Tom Sheppards books they are amazing and he have more than 40 years of expedition travel.
I find it intresting and a good verdict that Tom Sheppard choose a 2 door 2012 Jeep Wrangler as his expedition vehicle and he knows almost everything about every 4x4 vehicle out there. In some way he thought the Wrangler was the best out there for him.
He have had several Landrovers, think Defender is to old? had Gelandewagen.
His new Jeep
http://overlandexpo.squarespace.com/overland-tech-travel/2012/10/14/tom-sheppards-new-vehicle.html
"Author, Tom Sheppard,
ex Royal Air Force test pilot and 4x4 consultant to a major manufacturer, has accumulated more than 100,000 desert and overlanding miles over the years. He led the expedition that made the first coast-to-coast crossing of the Sahara, Atlantic to the Red Sea, for which he gained a Royal Geographical Society award."
The founder of Expeditionportal Scott Brady with Tom Sheppard
With his former Gelandewagen
Very nice books
Some info
http://www.desertwinds.co.uk/
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/34976-Tom-Sheppard-and-his-G-Wagen
http://www.trucktrend.com/features/163_0702_mercedes_benz_g_class/
