Early 20r/22r hybrid technical ?’s

[Asapdoorsolutions]

I have an 84 Toyota p/u I’m building into an over landing rig powered by a 22r block and internals with a 20 r head. I have 261 cam for the build, and started with a 77 22r out of a Hilux that was already in my truck when I got it, it has dual timing chain and I believe has never been bored. I didn’t know I was starting with this old of an engine until I popped the valve cover off, and I have heard that there are differences in head lengths and deck heights between “late” and “early” 22rs. Also the 20r head I pulled off a 78 hilux at the salvage yard seemed like it might be too old to have some of the performance advantages you’re supposed to get by building the hybrid engine. I’m having a hard time finding some of the technical info on these motors like when the deck height is would have changed, which it sounds like it might have been 84, and when the head length would have changed, which sounds around the same time period. Which raises the question, what is an “early” 22r? Pre 84? Are all “early” engines the same and have interchangeable parts, are there performance gains in the early 20r/22r hybrids? I’m hoping someone can point me in the right direction as my motor is torn down to the crank and I’m not sure which direction to move forward now.

 

[bkg]

Early 22r is pre-84. The 84+ block has a lower deck.

Personally, I think there are much better ways to get power. the hybrid is high-rpm focused, IIRC.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Engine - Block Identification - LC Engineering

101 total views

lcengineering.com

1975-1980 20R:

• Deck Height 11.280" (Pan Rail to Top of Deck)
• Deck Height 9.120" (Crankshaft Center to Top of Deck)
• Stock Bore 88.5MM - 3.484"
• Max Overbore 90MM - 3.544"

1981-1984 22R / RE:

• Deck Height 11.280" (Pan Rail to Top of Deck)
• Deck Height 9.120" (Crankshaft Center to Top of Deck)
• Stock Bore 92MM - 3.622"
• Max Overbore 94MM - 3.701"
• Turbo Max Overbore 93MM - 3.661"

1985 - 1995 22R / 22RE "Laser Block"

• Deck Height 11.090" (Pan Rail to Top of Deck)
• Deck Height 8.950" (Crankshaft Center to Top of Deck)
• Stock Bore 92MM - 3.622"
• Max Overbore 94MM - 3.701"
• Turbo Max Overbore 93MM - 3.661"

NOTES:

• Early 81-84 22R - 22RE and Late 85-95 22R / 22RE Engine Blocks: Cylinder Heads DO NOT INTERCHANGE without considerable modifications.
• For increased timing chain durability, ALL 1981 - 1984 should be converted to a double row timing chain, use oil pump drive and 20R - 1981 22R timing component set. For 1985 - 1995 engines, use timing chain conversion kit.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Engine - 22R Block/Head Identification - LC Engineering

39,551 total views

lcengineering.com

Engine – 22R Block/Head Identification
LC Engineering's Technical Department has provided some basic information as well as identification information to assist you in modifications to the 20R - 22R - 22RE Toyota 4 Cylinder engines. Along with our catalog, you should refer to the factory Toyota service manual for more in-depth information We also provide our customers with a technical support phone line to assist in determining what product or products will deliver the best performance for your application and budget. As you have seen in our catalog, we offer packages and products from mild modifications to wild modifications.

1975 - 1980 20R Cylinder Head:

• Round Intake Port
• Round Exhaust Port
• 80/81 C.C. Chamber
• Intake Valve Diameter 43mm
• Exhaust Valve Diameter 35mm

1981 - 1984 22R Cylinder Head:

• Square Intake Port
• Round Exhaust Port
• 82/83 C.C. Chamber
• Intake Valve Diameter 44.5mm
• Exhaust Valve Diameter 36.5mm

1985 - 1995 22R-22RE Cylinder Head:

• Square Intake Port
• Pear Shape Exhaust Port
• 57 C.C. Combustion Chamber
• 60 C.C. Chamber (Turbo) Intake Valve Diameter 44.5mm
• Exhaust Valve Diameter 36.5mm

1975 - 1980 20R Block:

• Deck Height 11.280"
• Stock Bore 88.5mm - 3.484"
• Maximum Over Bore 90.0mm - 3.544"

1981 - 1984 22R Block:

• Deck Height 11.280"
• Stock Bore 92.0mm - 3.622"
• Maximum Over Bore 93.0mm - 3.662"
• Big Bore Forged Piston Kit 94.0mm - 3.701"

1985 - 1995 22R-22RE "Laser Block":

• Deck Height 11.090"
• Stock Bore 92.0mm - 3.622"
• Maximum Over Bore 93.0mm - 3.6662"
• Big Bore Forged Piston Kit 94.0mm - 3.701"

All Toyota 20R - 22R - 22RE engines use the same crankshaft and connecting rods. To accommodate the different deck heights, Toyota changed the compression height (piston pin location).

Crankshaft (Forged)

• Stroke All 20R - 22R - 22RE 89mm - 3.5039"
• Rod Journal 2.0861 to 2.086" (standard)
• Main Journal 2.3614 to 2.13622" (standard)

Connecting Rod (Forged)

• Center to center length 5.830"

Cylinder Head Intake Air Flow (Apron)

• Stock: 130 CFM
• Stage 2: 160 CFM
• Stage 3: 200 CFM
• Stage 5: 250 CFM

 

[DaveInDenver]

Personally having built a mild 22R-E my $0.02 would be not to bother doing anything unless you're going to put a turbo on it.



I bumped compression (laser block and 85+ head), did oversized valves in an Engnbldr ported head, a 261C cam. It might have been a little more torque-y off idle but on the road it didn't make much difference and certainly didn't get enough performance bump to justify the money. I had to run mid-grade or higher gas to keep it from detonating.

If it was me I'd just rebuild it with decent parts and understand it's slow. Use only Toyota or OSK for the timing parts, at least the timing chain tensioner. If you want to spend money (and not do a 22R-ET or custom turbo) then do a 3RZ swap.

 

[Asapdoorsolutions]

Engine - Block Identification - LC Engineering

101 total views

lcengineering.com

1975-1980 20R:

• Deck Height 11.280" (Pan Rail to Top of Deck)
• Deck Height 9.120" (Crankshaft Center to Top of Deck)
• Stock Bore 88.5MM - 3.484"
• Max Overbore 90MM - 3.544"

1981-1984 22R / RE:

• Deck Height 11.280" (Pan Rail to Top of Deck)
• Deck Height 9.120" (Crankshaft Center to Top of Deck)
• Stock Bore 92MM - 3.622"
• Max Overbore 94MM - 3.701"
• Turbo Max Overbore 93MM - 3.661"

1985 - 1995 22R / 22RE "Laser Block"

• Deck Height 11.090" (Pan Rail to Top of Deck)
• Deck Height 8.950" (Crankshaft Center to Top of Deck)
• Stock Bore 92MM - 3.622"
• Max Overbore 94MM - 3.701"
• Turbo Max Overbore 93MM - 3.661"

NOTES:

• Early 81-84 22R - 22RE and Late 85-95 22R / 22RE Engine Blocks: Cylinder Heads DO NOT INTERCHANGE without considerable modifications.
• For increased timing chain durability, ALL 1981 - 1984 should be converted to a double row timing chain, use oil pump drive and 20R - 1981 22R timing component set. For 1985 - 1995 engines, use timing chain conversion kit.

Thank you soooo much ??

 

[Asapdoorsolutions]

Early 22r is pre-84. The 84+ block has a lower deck.

Personally, I think there are much better ways to get power. the hybrid is high-rpm focused, IIRC.

Understood. I went this route because the head is 64 dollars at the scrapyard, and I already have this engine, I’m not looking for a power house, and probably would have been happy rebuilding stock, I just figured if I’m in there and could get a couple ponies it would be nice as well as having already invested some into the engine in the way of upkeep I.e. water pump, radiator, Weber carb, gm alternator conversion, new clutch, new starter, new clutch hydraulics, so I figured it just made since to keep it going. The RPM range is what attracted me as this engine has been an absolute dog and in need of a rebuild pretty bad since I owned the truck but it suited me for local off-roading adventures, but now I just want the reliability of fresh basically stock build.

 

[Asapdoorsolutions]

Personally having built a mild 22R-E my $0.02 would be not to bother doing anything unless you're going to put a turbo on it.

View attachment 623411

I bumped compression (laser block and 85+ head), did oversized valves in an Engnbldr ported head, a 261C cam. It might have been a little more torque-y off idle but on the road it didn't make much difference and certainly didn't get enough performance bump to justify the money. I had to run mid-grade or higher gas to keep it from detonating.

If it was me I'd just rebuild it with decent parts and understand it's slow. Use only Toyota or OSK for the timing parts, at least the timing chain tensioner. If you want to spend money (and not do a 22R-ET or custom turbo) then do a 3RZ swap.

 

[Asapdoorsolutions]

It has seemed to me that guys who have accepted these motors for what they are at least satisfied with the final product of a properly built cammed hybrid, and some guys just want more power than their budget or this motor will allow, I’m mostly in search of more usable rpms and the reliability or stock, or close to it.

 

[Asapdoorsolutions]

Engine - 22R Block/Head Identification - LC Engineering

39,551 total views

lcengineering.com

Engine – 22R Block/Head Identification
LC Engineering's Technical Department has provided some basic information as well as identification information to assist you in modifications to the 20R - 22R - 22RE Toyota 4 Cylinder engines. Along with our catalog, you should refer to the factory Toyota service manual for more in-depth information We also provide our customers with a technical support phone line to assist in determining what product or products will deliver the best performance for your application and budget. As you have seen in our catalog, we offer packages and products from mild modifications to wild modifications.

1975 - 1980 20R Cylinder Head:

• Round Intake Port
• Round Exhaust Port
• 80/81 C.C. Chamber
• Intake Valve Diameter 43mm
• Exhaust Valve Diameter 35mm

1981 - 1984 22R Cylinder Head:

• Square Intake Port
• Round Exhaust Port
• 82/83 C.C. Chamber
• Intake Valve Diameter 44.5mm
• Exhaust Valve Diameter 36.5mm

1985 - 1995 22R-22RE Cylinder Head:

• Square Intake Port
• Pear Shape Exhaust Port
• 57 C.C. Combustion Chamber
• 60 C.C. Chamber (Turbo) Intake Valve Diameter 44.5mm
• Exhaust Valve Diameter 36.5mm

1975 - 1980 20R Block:

• Deck Height 11.280"
• Stock Bore 88.5mm - 3.484"
• Maximum Over Bore 90.0mm - 3.544"

1981 - 1984 22R Block:

• Deck Height 11.280"
• Stock Bore 92.0mm - 3.622"
• Maximum Over Bore 93.0mm - 3.662"
• Big Bore Forged Piston Kit 94.0mm - 3.701"

1985 - 1995 22R-22RE "Laser Block":

• Deck Height 11.090"
• Stock Bore 92.0mm - 3.622"
• Maximum Over Bore 93.0mm - 3.6662"
• Big Bore Forged Piston Kit 94.0mm - 3.701"

All Toyota 20R - 22R - 22RE engines use the same crankshaft and connecting rods. To accommodate the different deck heights, Toyota changed the compression height (piston pin location).

Crankshaft (Forged)

• Stroke All 20R - 22R - 22RE 89mm - 3.5039"
• Rod Journal 2.0861 to 2.086" (standard)
• Main Journal 2.3614 to 2.13622" (standard)

Connecting Rod (Forged)

• Center to center length 5.830"

Cylinder Head Intake Air Flow (Apron)

• Stock: 130 CFM
• Stage 2: 160 CFM
• Stage 3: 200 CFM
• Stage 5: 250 CFM

 

[Asapdoorsolutions]

Engine - Block Identification - LC Engineering

101 total views

lcengineering.com

1975-1980 20R:

• Deck Height 11.280" (Pan Rail to Top of Deck)
• Deck Height 9.120" (Crankshaft Center to Top of Deck)
• Stock Bore 88.5MM - 3.484"
• Max Overbore 90MM - 3.544"

1981-1984 22R / RE:

• Deck Height 11.280" (Pan Rail to Top of Deck)
• Deck Height 9.120" (Crankshaft Center to Top of Deck)
• Stock Bore 92MM - 3.622"
• Max Overbore 94MM - 3.701"
• Turbo Max Overbore 93MM - 3.661"

1985 - 1995 22R / 22RE "Laser Block"

• Deck Height 11.090" (Pan Rail to Top of Deck)
• Deck Height 8.950" (Crankshaft Center to Top of Deck)
• Stock Bore 92MM - 3.622"
• Max Overbore 94MM - 3.701"
• Turbo Max Overbore 93MM - 3.661"

NOTES:

• Early 81-84 22R - 22RE and Late 85-95 22R / 22RE Engine Blocks: Cylinder Heads DO NOT INTERCHANGE without considerable modifications.
• For increased timing chain durability, ALL 1981 - 1984 should be converted to a double row timing chain, use oil pump drive and 20R - 1981 22R timing component set. For 1985 - 1995 engines, use timing chain conversion kit.

So does this mean my 77 can’t be a 22r, because my head and valve train, and valve cover and intake are all 22r parts, which I guess means someone built a 20r, 22r hybrid backwards? Or that the early 22r info is not listed here.

 

[DaveInDenver]

So does this mean my 77 can’t be a 22r, because my head and valve train, and valve cover and intake are all 22r parts, which I guess means someone built a 20r, 22r hybrid backwards? Or that the early 22r info is not listed here.

Toyota introduced the 22R in 1981 so it can't be a 1977 22R. I don't know why someone would put a 81-84 22R head on a 20R block other they needed something in a hurry. Or maybe they sold the 20R for beer money and took the 22R head in trade.

The 22R head has the swirl chambers for emissions which don't help you with flow performance, which is why the 20R head is preferred. Smooth and porting a 22R head helps but it'll never be a 20R. I had to stick with a 22R-E because my truck was a 1991 and had to pass emissions, which was tough enough with a completely stock engine.

It has seemed to me that guys who have accepted these motors for what they are at least satisfied with the final product of a properly built cammed hybrid, and some guys just want more power than their budget or this motor will allow, I’m mostly in search of more usable rpms and the reliability or stock, or close to it.

I didn't want to make it sound like it's not possible (175 HP and 200 lb-ft is achievable with the right machine work, valves, cam and pistons) but you have to really do your homework. And when you're done a stock 3RZ will feel more powerful than most of them not forced induction and be cheaper per HP most likely. It'll also have the advantage of being all Toyota (and even there Toyota eventually will stop supporting with spares for the 3RZ like they mostly have the R-series) and not a hybrid with custom bits.

So my point is just not to throw a bunch of money at it. Spend a few hundred dollars and be happy with the slowness. The only people IMO who should still in 2020 be building true performance 20R and 22R are retro racing types who *have* to stay period appropriate. If it's hobby thing just to see if you can do it, that's awesome. But there's not a lot of places that still have the parts and knowledge so you'll need to learn (read all you can on Yotatech, Marlin boards, Pirate) or get friendly with LC Engineering.

 

[Asapdoorsolutions]

Toyota introduced the 22R in 1981 so it can't be a 1977 22R. I don't know why someone would put a 81-84 22R head on a 20R block other they needed something in a hurry. Or maybe they sold the 20R for beer money and took the 22R head in trade.

The 22R head has the swirl chambers for emissions which don't help you with flow performance, which is why the 20R head is preferred. Smooth and porting a 22R head helps but it'll never be a 20R. I had to stick with a 22R-E because my truck was a 1991 and had to pass emissions, which was tough enough with a completely stock engine.

I didn't want to make it sound like it's not possible (175 HP and 200 lb-ft is achievable with the right machine work, valves, cam and pistons) but you have to really do your homework. And when you're done a stock 3RZ will feel more powerful than most of them not forced induction and be cheaper per HP most likely. It'll also have the advantage of being all Toyota (and even there Toyota eventually will stop supporting with spares for the 3RZ like they mostly have the R-series) and not a hybrid with custom bits.

So my point is just not to throw a bunch of money at it. Spend a few hundred dollars and be happy with the slowness. The only people IMO who should still in 2020 be building true performance 20R and 22R are retro racing types who *have* to stay period appropriate. If it's hobby thing just to see if you can do it, that's awesome. But there's not a lot of places that still have the parts and knowledge so you'll need to learn (read all you can on Yotatech, Marlin boards, Pirate) or get friendly with LC Engineering.

Much appreciated advice! I figured out today that my entire engine is 22r, from whatever year as of now, but definitely older than my truck as it has dual timing chain, however, my flywheel is off of a 77 hilux for whatever reason ?? And has that written right on the side of it which made me think the assembly was a 77, but by measuring the bore diameter I can tell it is in fact a 22r block, so all in all good news, and much appreciated, this is the first motor ive ever built so I’m in a little over my head and all the advice is greatly appreciated

 

[DaveInDenver]

Much appreciated advice! I figured out today that my entire engine is 22r, from whatever year as of now, but definitely older than my truck as it has dual timing chain, however, my flywheel is off of a 77 hilux for whatever reason ?? And has that written right on the side of it which made me think the assembly was a 77, but by measuring the bore diameter I can tell it is in fact a 22r block, so all in all good news, and much appreciated, this is the first motor ive ever built so I’m in a little over my head and all the advice is greatly appreciated

Everyone starts from zero and learns! The R engines are forgiving and there's a lot of knowledge out there about them, just that it's still a pretty specific niche unlike a small block Chevy or something.

 

[b dkw1]

I’m mostly in search of more usable rpms and the reliability or stock, or close to it.

Much more than stock redline gets hard on parts, these motors have a horrible rod ratio. Elgin and Schneider both make good cams for them. The intake manifolds do not flow well and the exhaust is pretty bad to. A properly sized turbo works wonders. A stock CT20 off a 22RET is junk.