Early jeep?

J

jeepdreamer

Expedition Leader
Uh...Seriously?

Hey,
Not trying to rain on the parade but I think your barking up the wrong tree. I've owned Jeeps all my life and can't imagine making a CJ5 into an overland. Room for FOUR? That made me chuckle...You'll be lucky if you can get 4 IN the 5...So the need for a trailer would be the only way it would be possible...honestly.
The other thing is that there is not as much love for the early/mid year CJs. I had a 67 for about 5 years. It had the Buick 225 O.F. V6 and a T86AA 3 speed... The engine is fine but can be hard to locate parts for in the middle of nowhere. Ther tranny o the other hand is a first class turd.
If I was in your boat and just getting started I would honestly stop. Search out a good 91 or newer XJ and use that. It WILL carry 4 and gear reliably. Use the 5 for Sunday runs for icecream with the kids or something...
 
H

hugh

Observer
Anything is of course possible. CJ5's are tough little vehicles, I had a 76 and I did a bit of travel with one summer across the province where I live and the next door prov of Saskatchewan with my wife and son while pulling a small pop up trailer. I told the wife before we left that it would be an adventure because the Jeep was so crude compared to modern vehicles. It was an adventure, we had a great time, would I do it again? Prob not, mostly because to get to most places some highway travel is required and 5's don,t do highways and interstates at speed very well. Backroads ans secondaries heck yea. My next Jeep was a CJ7 with an auto and even though it had more room, still not a great road traveller. I took that to the Black Hills and it,s about 88 miles one from home and by the time we came back I needed to stop and stretch about every 200 or so miles. Mostly because it rode like a buckboard. But don,t let stories like this stop you, give it a try. By the way I have an XJ on 35's now and it is a huge improvement in ride and even off road capability.
 
B

Brigitta

Observer
Have you considered a CJ6? Longer platform with less over hang than the CJ8. We've owned both and and the longer wheelbase is much more stable than the CJ5 and more storage than the CJ7 (owned both of those too).
 
D

de5id

Observer
Thanks for all the comments! I probably should have explained a little more about what I'm planning...I've been driving jeeps for years off and on (last one was a 77' chero with a 401) but I just had to have this CJ...

Now...for the engine I am pretty stuck on a mecedes 5 cylinder diesel I found a company that is manufacturing conversion flywheels and adapters to gm manual trannys, I know its going to take some work getting it in there but im not trying to keep anything original here...I love the buick v6 but I think it will be going in my 48 F1

I have been thinking about a CJ6 but rather than hunt one down and pay the huge price I am thinking about strecting mine the 20in to accomodate...I think this will give me the room to at least mount a small freezer...the hard top is original and will be stretched too...I dont plan on it ever coming off after mounted but I will leave it removable...

the only thing I really havnt pinned down are the axles...I would like to keep the spicer 18 and warn overdrive if possible but I need to find a matched set of offset axles...

I am a cartographer of sorts by trade, been welding and fabricating all my life and my dads' got a CNC plasma cutter so custom part arent to much of a concern at the moment but I am looking for a metal lathe...

this build wont get off the ground realisticlly for at least 3-4 months I am moving soon and I know setting up the house will be priority when we get there but hey it all takes time...

once again thanks for the comments guys and I look forward to being a member of this forum...
 
C

cocco78

Adventurer
A Wagoneer with Quadratac should have an offset D44 rear, I don't remember the years tho. I did this along time ago with a 69 CJ5 I had... I think tho you would need a late 80's quadratrac rear axle and a pre 1980 front axle to get the diff on the correct side...
 
Root Moose

Root Moose

Expedition Leader
de5id said:
the only thing I really havnt pinned down are the axles...I would like to keep the spicer 18 and warn overdrive if possible but I need to find a matched set of offset axles...
Click to expand...

Axles out of a Quadratrac FSJ would work. Rear end may be a D44 or a AMC20 IIRC. In FSJ usage both are good axles. Don't bother with the CJ version of the AMC20 - it has two piece axles and is prone to failure, especially now that they have 30-40 years of fatigue cycles on them.
 
J

jeepdreamer

Expedition Leader
Geeezzze...

That little bit of intel would have been helpful...********! Just kidding. Nice to know you have the skills to realize the dream.
I'm still a little stuck in the "why" but its your dream...The one thing I mentioned that still holds true somewhat is the lack of love/support for the early CJ5s. Stupid stuff like the latches for the windshiled were a bad design. Nobody deals with them..at least anymore. Plus the electrical is pretty lame. THe big old Spartan turn signal hanging off the coloum will snag you in the leg everytime!
But if this is the path you choose...Cool! I'll watch. Just be ready for a LOT of fabrication...
The Q-trac waggy axle is prob the best deal if you insist on keeping the Spicer...Though I would think with all else your doing there are many MANY better ways to skin that cat. Granted the MB 5cyl isn't a power monster but I have to wonder if the 18 would hold up? What tranny are you thinking?
 
Root Moose

Root Moose

Expedition Leader
For an expedition style build I'd serious look at a direct drive transfer case (i.e. not an offset case). It'd be nice to keep that OD unit though.

Build your '5 as a nice day tripper? Get something more appropriate for overlanding?

JAT
 
Root Moose

Root Moose

Expedition Leader
I think the Dana 18 would be fine as far as power from the diesel is concerned. They get by behind V8s.
 
D

de5id

Observer
For the tranny I was thinking an sm420 or the 465 would do nicely and the are easy to find tough and cheap...as far as the spicer 18 I think it should hold up alright as I have seen quite a few of the guys on earlycj5.com put V8's in front the main thing that makes it desirable for me is the compact overdrive will keep the whole drivetrain relatively short If I'm only adding 20 inches ill need the room!
 
J

jeepdreamer

Expedition Leader
Confused...

I guess I'm a little confused as to the goal here. Your wanting to run a GM tranny with the dino-18w/OD behind the MB 5cyl...? I think that is what I'm reading. Is the goal to build it bullitproof or use what you got and be thrifty? I am guessing that if you stretch your 5 it should end up near the length of a CJ7...maybe a Scrambler? I admit I don't know how long the 5cyl MB is but I would guess it is at least as long as a 4.2 AMC? You will run into a few issues there with your early model. The fenders/hood are shorter so the distance between the firewall and the grille is even less than with a 76+ model. I ran into the same thing putting the AMC 360 into my '67 Commando. At that point your options are limited.
-cut into the firewall and set the motor into the passenger compartment (not such a great idea with a louder diesel)
-Run newer model fenders and hood to push the grille forward. Doing this will mean you will have to get creative if you want to mount a winch.
-Or you could stretch what you have...I'm adding 4"s to my hood (Commando hoods are a little different) and building custom fenders plus cutting out the large V6 shroud on the grille.
I honestly would have to say that keeping the 18/OD just for the OD is kinda a not so great idea. You will have to run adapters either way so why not upgrade to something stronger and a little more modern? A 5 speed and a dana 300 would be a good ticket...Ahem. Just saying. And you could sell the OD to someone doing a resto to make back some of the $?
 
Root Moose

Root Moose

Expedition Leader
This is what I love about the Jeeps: there are so many ways to skin the cat.

If you want to add a little bit more length to the engine bay without switching to long fenders you could try a DJ hood. They add a few inches but are seriously fugly.

If you are starting with a clean sheer of paper I tend to agree with jeepdreamer with respect to putting a more modern driveline in it.

A Chev NV3550 with a Dana 300 or Dana 20 or even a NV231C (my preference given we aren't building a crawler) would be more than robust, gives you over drive gearing and uses modern, efficient gear profiles and is straight through power delivery. Added bonus is that you can run any "normal" configuration axles you want.

But, if you want to keep the retro stuff, and I really like that from a "restomod" point of view, you can add any of your selected drivetrain is a stock wheelbase setup. Adding 20 inches lets you install pretty much anything you want also. IIRC that would be a ~108" wheelbase. You could fit anything.

2¢
 
D

de5id

Observer
well its a little of both being thrifty and building it as cheaply as possible...I know it would probably be cheaper and easier to go with a different jeep but I just cant bring myself to abandon another project for another and between the 3 48 fords the boat the bike and my wheel horse project I think my wife would kill me if I added another jeep...so with that being said...I dont know for sure what I am going to do for sure but the CJ will be my base to work off of...

I think you are all right about the spicer 18, the more I think about it the more I think I'm gonna ditch it and go with a 300 or dana 20 (I want to keep the twin stick or at least have the option) If the axles where not such a weak link I wouldn't consider it but the dana 27 and two piece axle 44 are not know for there strength not to mention limited availability of parts for the 27...

So...I will continue to update this thread as I make head way...there is a lot of rust I need to work through, I need to locate a suitable engine the adapter will most likely not be coming for several months...


thanks again everyone for your comments/suggestions, please feel free add to it..!
 
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