Expedition Setup Reccomendation

[JayGannon]

Hi there,
I am looking for a recommendation on a 3 Vehicle, 5 Handheld Radio System with 5-10km range in relatively hilly terrain.
The Vehcicle radios preferably with remote heads.

Would I be right that a 2m system is what I am looking for?
Basically I need enlightenment. Also ARPS looks very interesting and would be something I could see great use in having the option of.

Thanks in advance.

Jay

 

[SunTzuNephew]

5-10km in hilly terrain? It all depends on the terrain between the radios.

If you're in hilly terrain, all in the same straight valley or canyon, or on top of the hills, no problem! 2-meter would be just fine, and any such radios would work. Even CB might work at those short ranges, FRS not at the longer ranges under typical conditions.

If you're on opposite sides of a 2000' hill, big problem! VHF radio is mostly line-of-site, and you can't see through the rocks. About the only thing that **might** work in that situation is some sort of NVIS, which isn't cheap or terribly portable: The antennas get rather large, and require auto-tuners.

 

[JayGannon]

I think I'd be relatively happy with a line-of-sight system, provided it would go through say a 200m hill to the other side. So I would be right in going for a 2 meter system with aerials on the vehicles. Would all of my operators need licences or can I just get one for myself?
I was looking into some of the more popular systems like the Icom 706mk2 and Kenwood D700's for the vehicles. I assume these are roughly what I should be looking at?
Any recommendation on the handhelds to go with those vehicle mounted system, rugged handhelds that will take some punishment and inclement weather are a must.

 

[DarioCarrera]

It looks to me like with a 2 meter set up you`d be fine. If you want rugged handhelds try the Yaesu VX7r, I own it and have nothing but good things to say about it.

In my ExPo rig ai have the Yaesu 857d for HF+50Mhz and an Icom v8000 for VHF, which im swapping to an Icom 2820 for simutaneousd V/U capabilities.

THe 857 or the 706Mk2 is overkill if you just want mobile (local) comunications. Now if you wan a full fledged comm center, go for either of those rigs. They are both very good.

All operator need to be licensed... at least here in YV. I think in the US is the same... it all comes from IARU.

 

[ntsqd]

Gary in Ohio can confirm, but I'm with Dario, I'm reasonably sure that all U.S. operators need their own ham license.

If this is business related then the rules change and the Business Band (just above ham 2M) is where you'll need to be using dedicated BB radios. My understanding is that in BB there is only the one 'license' and all users operate under that on your leased frequency for a specific area of operations.

 

[SunTzuNephew]

I think I'd be relatively happy with a line-of-sight system, provided it would go through say a 200m hill to the other side. So I would be right in going for a 2 meter system with aerials on the vehicles. Would all of my operators need licences or can I just get one for myself?
I was looking into some of the more popular systems like the Icom 706mk2 and Kenwood D700's for the vehicles. I assume these are roughly what I should be looking at?
Any recommendation on the handhelds to go with those vehicle mounted system, rugged handhelds that will take some punishment and inclement weather are a must.

Think of radio waves as light....if light doesn't go through a mountain, the radio waves won't either. It can be a real problem. Now, to a very limited extent you can transmit around obstacles, but to count on it? Very iffy.

And anyone operating a ham radio needs to either be a licensed ham (for that band) or under the direct supervision of a licensed ham who can rip the microphone out of the hands of anyone going psychotic, or whatever. One licensed ham in a group of several vehicles with ham radios won't cut it.

However, GMRS might fit the mission, these are somewhat like FRS radios, but offer more power; and licensing, while required, is much more proforma. They don't require individuals being licensed, families and groups can be. They won't transmit through rock either, though.

The Icom 706 is a great radio: I have them in my trucks. However, it's much more expensive than a 2-meter (on the order of 5-10x more), much more complicated to operate, and the HF portions require very large antennas and tuners. For a 2-meter an Icom V-8000, Yaesu 1900 or 2800 or similar radios will be more appropriate.

For handhelds, both Icom and Yaseu products have made me quite satisfied. The Yaesu tend to be somewhat less expensive and much more feature-rich (which is both a blessing, and a curse since it means more opportunity to screw something up), the Icoms somewhat more durable: I have a couple of Icom IC-02AT's that are more than 20 years old and still going strong, even after being horribly abused (like dropped onto a concrete sidewalk from the roof of a two-story building).

 

[gary in ohio]

Hi there,
I am looking for a recommendation on a 3 Vehicle, 5 Handheld Radio System with 5-10km range in relatively hilly terrain.
The Vehcicle radios preferably with remote heads.

Would I be right that a 2m system is what I am looking for?
Basically I need enlightenment. Also ARPS looks very interesting and would be something I could see great use in having the option of.

Thanks in advance.

Jay

I think we need more information. You said 3 vehicles and 5 handhelds does that mean there will be 8 operators or will the hand helds be used when not in the vehicles? DO the hand helds need to cover the same range or are they just camp radios? What kind of hilly terrain, rocks or forest? You said outfitting an expedition, Over what area will the expedition be roaming? US, Canada? outside of NA? WHat is the critical nature of the communications, Do you need second by second communications or just checking in once in a while ok. Also what kind of budget do you have for the radios?

Once we get that info we can start to answer your questions. In the US you dont have many options, FRS and MURS license free radio, no mobiles and very low power. GMRS mobiles and higher power but remote head and distance will be an issue. THere are business band licensed options but they give you very little that MURS and GMRS gives you. Ham radio is possible but selecting band(s) depends on how you answer the questions.

 

[gary in ohio]

I think I'd be relatively happy with a line-of-sight system, provided it would go through say a 200m hill to the other side.

Line of site is just that, You must be able to see it. Its not going through anything.

 

[gary in ohio]

Gary in Ohio can confirm, but I'm with Dario, I'm reasonably sure that all U.S. operators need their own ham license.

Each operator will need a ham radio license. License class will dictate some of the bands and modes available.

You might be able to get a business band but most of those are SITE specific license, not some roaming mobile. You can use some interinat freq but those tend to be low power only and will not cover the range needed..

 

[JayGannon]

Sorry I should have elaborated more,

We are going on a number of 3 vehicle expeditions over the next 3 years, 2 people per truck so 6 operators, all can apply for licence if needed. I am based in Ireland and our 'Experimenters Licence' covers 2m, 70cm and limited 6m. My handheld numbers were based on 1 person always being with the vehicles so maximum of 5 handhelds needed. While this is a personal purchace and project if it made life easier I do run a business and could apply for business specific items.

Comm's are going to be used for a variety of uses, from 5-10minutes status checks en route to co-ordination while out on trail and for sports (we're avid climbers and kayakers). I would like at least 1 vehicle to have some form of HF for long distance emergency communications in North Africa and parts of Eastern Europe. Communications would be regulated within the convoy so simplex radio communication would be the best I would assume as many areas we couldn't not rely on having a repeater in the area. On this topic would having a vehicle (Acting as base camp) with a repeater capable radio be advisable?

Terrain will mostly be forest and mountainous but I will not be expecting much in the mountainous areas, short range <1km is all that would be needed in the mountainous regions (Vehicle to vehicle comms)

Budget is flexible, I am more than willing to pay for good equipment when it comes to something like comm's as it can be lifesaving equipment. It would be handy if any vehicle radios were APRS capable too as I see that as something with a lot of potential use in a SAR situation.

Let me know if this helps any.

 

[gary in ohio]

Sorry I should have elaborated more,

We are going on a number of 3 vehicle expeditions over the next 3 years, 2 people per truck so 6 operators, all can apply for licence if needed. I am based in Ireland

Comm's are going to be used for a variety of uses, from 5-10minutes status checks en route to co-ordination while out on trail and for sports (we're avid climbers and kayakers). I would like at least 1 vehicle to have some form of HF for long distance emergency communications in North Africa and parts of Eastern Europe.

Terrain will mostly be forest and mountainous

Being you looking at multi-country radio use its going to get complicated.
First at home, You dont apply for a license. You need to take a test and pass to be issued a license. Communications Regulator. is the Irish license athority, similar to the FCC in the US. Each country is going to have its own license requirements and while some counties have reciprocal license they usually require the home country license to be more than an entry level.
I would suggest contacting the Irish radio society http://www.irts.ie/cgi/index.cgi and find someone local to help you get a license.

Once you get a license in your home country you will need to find out where and IF you license is usable in other countries. Most EU counties, us, canada, australia allow automatic use of a host country license in there country but the rules change and I dont have specific com req agreements.

Once you get into underdeveloped counties and where leadership changes at the drop of the hat, ham radio is often not available with a special license and often under heavy monitoring by local government.

Ham radio might be an option in some countries and may cause you issues in others. Since each country issues its own license getting a "business band" radio license is pretty much out. FRS/GMRS is a North American license, There is a similar PMR radio in the EU, but not sure how much or if Its legal outside of that. HF could serve you but again, it allow information in and out of a region and some of the more totalitarian African countries may not want that freedom available to you anyone.

If you go the ham radio, figure 100-300 for handhelds, single band on the low side, dual on the high, moble VHF/UHF will run from $150 to $500 single band or quad band. Mobile HF radio setups will run you close to $2000 for amateur radios double that if your forced into a "commercial HF" system. All numbers are $USD.

Again I would suggest getting in touch with both the Irish transmitter society as well as a caravan club that covers your intended travel areas to see what they suggest.

 

[craig]

The Kenwood D710a mobile would be perfect for use in the vehicles. It allows you to both talk on the radio and do APRS on the sub-band. VERY easy to use, simple to setup APRS, and has great easy to understand docunmentation. I've had a couple of radios now and I'm really impressed with this one.

The D710a can be connected to most high end GPS units or to the next version of Overland Navigator (my companies software) running on a tablet/convertible/laptop PC. By connecting it to the GPS or Overland Navigator you can see on-screen where others are located.

Craig

 

[Saratoga]

In the UK you'd need the 'advanced' level of licence, the highest one, to be able to use it in other countries, and that is only assuming that the countries you are visiting have reciprical agreements.

There are other threads on this board that relate to having radio comms in some african countries as they are classed as 'military' and therefore you're a spy!

It is something you have to be very careful about and take numerous steps to proceed on this plan. Good Luck though