Fire Extinguishers (is halon worth it?)

[+ d]

What is everyone's opinion of Halon Fire Extinguishers?

I have read that they are worth the cost because they are "clean agent", no corrosive side effects. From what i understand, the powder type extinguishers can often create more damage than the fire would have!

Also, anyone have any ground breaking mods/thoughts/equipment regarding fire prevention???

 

[Scott Brady]

Having been a fireman for 4 years, I would say absolutely yes. The challenge with halon is the danger to the person attempting to extinguish the fire...

It actually displaces oxygen, which can suffocate you...

I carry Halon in my Jeep.

 

[Nullifier]

Well as scott know I have been through fire academy and been active with fire rescue. I think Halon is great but my concern is the user also. I mean worst case scenario you have to use it while still in the vehicle. Halon would be real dangerous.

I mean lets be honest about the dry chem units. Sure there is stuff in there that can do damage but hey if your rig cought on fire,chances are you got bigger things to worry about then dry chem issues. Besides you can bet you'll be gutting your rig to repair smoke damage if nothing else,so that is the time to clean it out. Hopefully there will be something left to fret over if it happened.

 

[njtaco]

We had a driver put out an alternator fire in a work truck (Chevy, if it matters ). The dry chem went EVERYWHERE! What a mess. Once we recovered the truck, step one was cleanup. It literally took longer to clean up the chemical than to repair the truck. I still have a drychem in the Taco, with a Halon right next to it. The Halon for me, the dry chem for the other guy .

Question for the Fire Fighters... what about CO2 in a truck? Say, a 10LB ( if that is right...) I started CERT training at work last week, and the text indicated CO2 is being phased out. Any input on that, too?

Edit- Is CO2 as dangerous to use as Halon? Why?

 

[goodtimes]

CO2 and Halon both displace oxygen, so in that aspect, they are dangerous. I had a 17 pound halon 1211 bottle fall out of a mounting bracket on a hovercraft one night off the coast of Africa....it is almost scary how fast it will displace oxygen. I couldn't breath by the time I got to the door, which only took me a couple of seconds once we realized what it was that fell and was leaking.....

Halon has the added danger of it reacting with oxygen and heat, turning into a toxic gas at about 900* (it has been a few years....but I believe it is 900....maybe it is lower....). This can be a problem in enclosed spaces if you are in there with a fire, or go in after a fire that has been extinguished with halon....this probably not much of a concern in vehicles....just a bit of info left floating around my brain after the fairly extensive shipboard fire fighting training.

Halon is also getting harder and harder to get, making it more expensive. It is no longer being produced, due to enviromental concerns (not sure if it is a concern with the manufacturing process, or something happening when it is released into the atmosphere). All the halon on the market is stuff that has been stockpiled, and recovered from existing containers. Once the supply has been consumed, there will be no more. Of course, that bit of info is a couple years old. If that has changed, someone please let speak up.

Most of the dry chemical extinguishers are not corrosive (the old PKP was VERY corrosive), and the mess can be washed off at the local car wash (I don't know how legal that is though).

Personally, I carry dry chem in both my truck and jeep. Why? Because they are cheap, and they work. I would prefer CO2 or Halon, but not for the cost.

 

[asteffes]

Having been a fireman for 4 years, I would say absolutely yes. The challenge with halon is the danger to the person attempting to extinguish the fire...

It actually displaces oxygen, which can suffocate you...

I carry Halon in my Jeep.

Every extinguishing agent displaces oxygen. That is, they all take up space when you discharge the unit. They all make it hard to breathe and see to varying extents. Also, there are a few halon alternatives available now, such as Amerex's Halotron which work at least as well as traditional halon.

I think you need to decide why you're carrying it. In race cars, extinguishers are for saving people, not the car, so you need an agent that doesn't totally obscure one's vision while exiting the vehicle. Once the driver is out, the course workers blast the car with powder because it's cheaper and has a lasting effect on the fire by coating flammable surfaces. Halon evaporates quickly and won't help much if a fire is continuously fed, say, with spraying fuel or oil.

If you want the extinguisher to save your rig should it catch fire, use powder, but understand you'll have an utter mess that will take weeks to clean up. You may also have melted wiring that could take awhile to rip out and replace.

Some might suggest that one has insurance to protect the vehicle and that extinguishers should be considered for saving only people (thus, use Halon.) Ask yourself if you really want to try to salvage a vehicle that has been seriously burned? I've helped a friend restore a 2002 VW GTI that had minor (mostly cosmetic) damage after a fire on-track and, while the mechanical repairs weren't a big deal, cleaning all the powder out of the car involved removing the entire interior, steam cleaning everything, and re-installing it after it all dried out. It was not pleasant, and it's still not 100%.

My $1.50.

 

[kevin]

Halon production was banned in the late 80s because it is ozone depleting. There is such a shortage of it left in supply, you can actually sell it to fire supression specialtists. They in turn re sell it to companys that have had it released from their systems. It is not illegal to re-fill systems, just to manufacture halon. With the cost of a whole new fire supression system for a building, owners pay a premium for it. There are plenty of "clean agents" that work well for vehicles, and do not damage the enviornment.

 

[calamaridog]

Halotron...

I think you want Halotron... not Halon...

http://www.halotron-inc.com/

Amerex makes the B386T (5lbs.) and the B385TS (2.5lbs.)

Local vendors:

ANITA FIRE HOSE COMPANY ETC
7937B NORTH AVENUE (SAN DIEGO)
LEMON GROVE, CA 91945
ANITA V BARNES
Phone: 619-462-3473

They have them in stock - $180 for the 5lbs. and $105 for the 2.5lbs.


AZTEC FIRE & SAFETY
8109 COMMERCIAL ST
LA MESA, CA 91942
BOB AKINS
Phone: 619-339-0922

FIRE ETC
2190 MAIN STREET
SAN DIEGO, CA 92113
DAVID J DUEA
Phone: 619-525-7286

 

[calamaridog]

Forgot to mention something. I carry a fire extinguisher and shovel mostly because I've seen several small brush fires started while off road, not because I've seen frequent vehicle fires.

Your standard ABC dry chemical extinguisher should be a manditory item in your rig when off roading. A good 5lbs. ABC is fairly inexpensive and can be recharged for about $20.

If you want the piece of mind for your vehicle then maybe it's worth $180 for the Halotron? I wouldn't go smaller than 5lbs.

 

[Mlachica]

I had a few questions about halon...

Is it heavier than air? mainly, if you inhale it, will it come back out?

I've heard it does something molecularly (is that a word?) to break down the fire as opposed to just displacing the oxygen, is this true?

 

[+ d]

Hmmm, doesn't seem that clear cut!

i guess the potential inhalation dangers and cost prevent halon/halotron from being a clear winner. from GT's experience it seems like a scenario where a halon extinguisher is ruptured during an accident and suffocates an unconscious passenger isn't that far fetched!

Thanks for the leads Bryan i may just stop by Fire Etc and see what their opinion is...

 

[asteffes]

You wouldn't want to inhale any fire extinguishing agent. They can all suffocate or otherwise harm you. Halon and its alternatives are no different in this respect to powder or carbon dioxide. Halon does not make all the air magically disappear any more than any other material that is sprayed into the air of a confined space like the interior of your vehicle. If you're that worried, smash the window out with the cylinder before spraying the fire.

Halon is heavy and it will tend to smother the air away from a fire, much the way a powder will coat a surface. However, halon also evaporates quickly, and doesn't leave a lasting effect beyond the cooling of the burning surface.

 

[devinsixtyseven]

What's your (collective, particularly fire guys) opinions on this product?

http://www.thefirestore.com/store/product.cfm/pid_3440_pyrocom_portable_suppression_system/

I have a 5# Kidde single use powder extinguisher in the truck...but I'd like something other than a single use powder can. Thoughts?

-Sean

 

[Beowulf]

I wish someone made an auto fire supression system. Lines running from a central tank with Jets in the engine comparment,under the dash and around gas tank. Bright red handle on dash near steering wheel.

Fire starts, pull handle, run like the wind.

Does not help anyone else, but would work great if you were trapped in the car and it started on fire. Just hold breath for long time.

 

[RCA2222]

I spoke with a guy who runs a fire extinguisher company catering to yachts. I asked him what he would carry in an ORV, and he suggested the Kidde foam extinguishers. They are ABC rated, not harmful to lungs or equipment, and apparently very effective.

He says that he has seen them in the Home Depot.

My .02c