Ham or CB?

[modelbuilder]

Met a new friend the other who has a ham radio he uses for off roading.


He says CB uses line of site all the time so if there is a mountain or hill area in your way you are screwed, where as ham radio is able to use a greater range of frequency along something a vast network of repeaters.

He also said you will get more chatter along the CB making it difficult to communicate. CB is good for vehicle to vehicle use but when you are out in the middle of no where all alone and stuck HAM might save your life.

CBs are limited to 4 watts, but ham radios often transmit at 50-100 watts, or higher with amplifiers, which are legal on the ham bands

Is any of this true?

What are the benefits of both and the drawbacks of both? What is more common in off roading.

I need to get one of these...any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[1leglance]

ham by far....
but also get a cheap cb for the times that everyone else uses that..walcottcb.com usually has a $75 deal with cig lighter powered cb and mag mount antenna

for new hams I recommend a handheld 2m radio like the vx170 for around $120, that way you get used to playing with ham, can run it with an external antenna which will really help range and later when you upgrade to an mounted radio you will have the handheld for hikes, loaning to buddies or spotting with.

Ham Radio Outlet might have a store near you and they are very helpful here in Phx.
Lots of threads on this and please ask more questions.

 

[modelbuilder]

Will the Yaesu VX170 with the antenna attachment be able to reach people when I am in the middle of the California Desert?

Can I also attach a hand held mic to it? My thought is that I could mount the VX170 to my dash with a non permanent gps mount (that attached to my AC vent) and use a corded mic.

 

[fetus]

Will the Yaesu VX170 with the antenna attachment be able to reach people when I am in the middle of the California Desert?

Can I also attach a hand held mic to it? My thought is that I could mount the VX170 to my dash with a non permanent gps mount (that attached to my AC vent) and use a corded mic.

Yes, it should have no problem depending on what terrain feature you happen to be on at the time you are trying to access the repeater. I usually travel around the area around the 395 north of the 58 freeway near Cuddeback Lake. The Table Mountain repeater on 2 meters has great coverage out there and throughout a lot of the desert around Mojave and Cal City. Can hit it with my HT on 5 watts.

You may be better off getting a small 2m Yaesu mobile rig (Yaesu FT-1802M 135 bucks from HRO).

The HT running as a mobile works ok in a pinch but you get a lot more power out of a mobile rig. You also end up with wires tangled everywhere with the HT setup. And the speaker on a speaker microphone usually isn't loud enough in a noisy vehicle.

 

[spressomon]

Are you going to be communicating with others in a group and are they using CB or HAM? If you are in a group and they only are using CB then a HAM won't do you any good for communicating with them.

OTOH all of our local group have switched to HAM and it is THE way to go. FM sound quality, extended range and selection of frequencies being just a few of the distinct advantages to HAM. You will, of course, need to obtain your HAM license before you can legally transmit.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Another good starter mobile radio is the Yaesu FT2800. Mil spec standards built and 65 watts power.
Just got a 2800, magnetic antennae, shipped to my door from Ham City for $162.

 

[crawler#976]

I'll second the FT-2800 - it's a great rig, and may be cheaper than a hand held if it's on sale. They are extremely durable too boot. Both HRO and Universal Radio have specials on them pretty regularly.

Warning: Ham can become a hobby vs. just a means of communication. :sombrero:

After a few months of using a single band radio, a FT-2800, I upgraded to a FT-7800 dual band. It offers a lot more opportunities for repeater use.

There are repeaters that cover the deserts east of SD and LA - some linked together that reach from SD to Phx.

Mark

 

[Luke]

HAM is definitely the way to go. My CB gives at the most 5-10 miles of range over flat terrain with a few trees, where as my Yaesu 7800 I can consistanly reach 40-50miles direct and with the use of repeaters I can talk pretty much anywhere in the country as i am in range of a couple Echolink repeaters. Not to mention the sound quality on the FM HAM radio is significantly better than the AM on the CB. Especially driving around in the city the squelch on my CB opens up whenever I am near a powerline where as my Yaesu 7800 has much less interference. Another plus is the 2m/70cm dual band antenna is a magent mount and is only ~18in tall where as to get any decent reception with a CB you really should be using at least a ~40in antenna. And with the CB antena you really have to find a good mounting location for the best ground plane, and just because of it's size. My HAM radio antenna is just a magnet mount and sticks right onto my roof and works great. My Yaesu 7800 also has wide band recieve so I can keep tabs on the weather service, police, fire, aircraft, railroads, FRS, GMRS, satellites (International Space Station, AO-51 etc.), drive thru-restraunts, etc. etc.

I could go on and on about how much better HAM is over CB. Not to mention after getting a decent CB rig, antenna, mounts, coax, etc. you are already looking at $100-$120 where as you could spend another $30 and have a good quality 2m Yaesu mobile radio or another $100 and have a dual band 2m/70cm mobile radio.

Personally for my situation I would not get anything other than a dual bander because all the repeaters in my area are pretty well split between the two bands. I have a linked repeater system on 70cm that gives me about a 200mile bubble to north/central KS and a 2m repeater tha give me another 100 mile bubble to the south.

Edited to add: If you're looking for some good deal keep your eye on the For Sale forum over at www.qrz.com you can usually find stuff for pretty cheap over there. Just yesterday a Yaesu 2800 2m mobile rig sold for $85

Also might want to check out this thread over on TTORA: Ham Radio 101 --- http://http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17428&highlight=console

I do also have a CB radio just in case I'm ever out wheelin' with someone else that has one, but to be honest with you since I got my ham license and the Yaesu 7800 I raaaaaaarely evern turn the CB on anymore. With the CB in my area there is never anyone in range of me, I'll have the squelch up to block out interference from power lines etc. but end up blocking out everyone else, the audio quality sounds like a tin can and a string, and when I am in range of anybody it's usually on the interstate with truckers dropping the f-bomb every 4th word. Not to mention when the band opens up you start hearing all the illegal high power loonies from multiple states away. Espcially on channel 6. Talk about a weird bunch of people who like to yell into their mic's and talk for 15 minutes straight about absolute garbage if you can even understand them at all since none of them even know how to speak correct english or annunciate. (/rantoff)

Anywho here is a picture of my current setup:

 

[cnynrat]

Both may be the right answer.

Like everyone else so far, I agree ham is far better for several reasons (range, signal quality, ability to find a clear frequency, etc.). But my experience is if you take any random group of off roaders, most will be running CB. So, having a CB gives you the assurance you can communicate with pretty much anyone you end up with on the trail.

If you happen to run with people who all have ham radios, and don't care about accomodating people outside that group, then you could go ham only.

 

[Tennmogger]

CB or Ham Radio

Both may be the right answer. ...chop...

I agree with Cnynrat, and every other response. Lots of good info here, especially when out traveling with your group and talking on simplex. You can't beat ham radio. However, I might add a few comments about non-group trips.

Repeaters are wonderful, but you have to know they are there, and you must know the access tones for most repeaters. Non-tone accessed (CTCSS) repeaters are rare now. Your only long range option with a Technician license is a repeater. (I won't get into ham radio satellite!)

I have done a bit of cross country traveling recently and have found that keeping track of which repeaters are where, and how to access them, is a real PIA. Even when you find a repeater and give a call, there's a good chance no one will come back to you. The 6m, 2m, and 70cm bands are just not populated like they once were unless you are in a population center.

The question about using ham radio from the middle of the desert does not have an absolute answer. It depends on the availability of repeaters, and if you have not done your research and know what repeaters have coverage there, you might as well consider there is no coverage.

Even monitoring and calling on 146.52 MHz, the national 2m FM calling frequency, does not yield contacts like it did a few years ago when any ham worth the name monitored 146.52 in addition to his favorite HF frequency.

So, what's the solution? Keep studying and enjoying the hobby and move up to the General class license as a minimum. This gives you access to the high frequency bands where long distance communications is normal, and no repeater or access code is involved. There is always some band with coverage to somewhere, even now in the sunspot doldrums. If you have an emergency in the bottom of a canyon in a SW desert, you might be talking to someone in NJ to help you, but you'd have help! If the band is dead at that given time, just wait a few hours and conditions will give better access on some band to somewhere.

IMHO, 2m is a great start, CB is a necessity to talk to the non-hams, and HF is the failsafe mode to always get you out of trouble.

Bob WB4ETT (licensed since 1965)

 

[Jacket]

Are you going to be communicating with others in a group and are they using CB or HAM? If you are in a group and they only are using CB then a HAM won't do you any good for communicating with them.

x2. Figure out who you want to travel with, and what they use. If everyone in your group is chatting on CB and you have a HAM then you'll be disappointed. That being said, if you travel alone part of the time, the value in added safety with the HAM is unbeatable.

I'd suggest a nice HAM setup, and a cheap CB if needed.

 

[tdesanto]

I'd suggest a nice HAM setup, and a cheap CB if needed.

x2

In addition, I have a different opinion than Lance regarding getting the handheld first. I recommend the mobile first, it has a great range and really takes advantage of the additional power that the HAM license grants you. The handheld could then be a supplement.

 

[gary in ohio]

Met a new friend the other who has a ham radio he uses for off roading.

First of all when talking about ham radio you need to be more specifiic about what aspects of ham radio your talking about or what frequency range your talking about. CB is a 40 channel radio service with a 4 watt power limit. (12 if you on ssb). Ham radio is a radio service with frequencies across the RF spectrum, Everthing from frequencies just above your broadcast band AM radio dial to and past the frequency your microwave oven operates on.
To compare CB vs CB without these specific modes/frequency is pointless.

He says CB uses line of site all the time so if there is a mountain or hill area in your way you are screwed, where as ham radio is able to use a greater range of frequency along something a vast network of repeaters.

CB radio operates within the HF portion of the band and is far from line of site in function. By the nature of the power level and amount of users on any given channel he is somewhat correct. 5-10 miles mobile to mobile is about it, given a clear channel, less on a busy common frequency. Ham radio has the option of different frequencies and power levels depending on the communication range needed. While there are networked repeaters, They are not the only option.

He also said you will get more chatter along the CB making it difficult to communicate. CB is good for vehicle to vehicle use but when you are out in the middle of no where all alone and stuck HAM might save your life.

Either or neither is good if you cant talk with who you need to. If your talking about a VHF or UHF radio for repeater use DONT assume there will be someone there to talk with or call for help. Granted some repeaters have people listening 24x7 but some may not.

CBs are limited to 4 watts, but ham radios often transmit at 50-100 watts, or higher with amplifiers, which are legal on the ham bands

CB is 4 watts and ham radio can go upto 1500watts depending on band and license class. Power however isnt the only factor in range. A ham radio on a dead band even with 1500watts is still a dead band.

What are the benefits of both and the drawbacks of both? What is more common in off roading.

CB is a reasonable cheap option to get short range communications without a license. CB are common in some areas and many offroaders have one.
Ham radio has lots of options, frequencies, power, modes of operation, but requires a license that requires some studying.

Either Are good option if the people you need to talk with have the same radio service. A perfect ham radio is worthless if all your budies are on CB.

If your interested in ham radio find a local ham radio club, http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/club/clubsearch.phtml and let them show you what ham radio is. Contrary to many of the post here ham radio is not just a 2 meter or dual band radio.

 

[Luke]

x2

In addition, I have a different opinion than Lance regarding getting the handheld first. I recommend the mobile first, it has a great range and really takes advantage of the additional power that the HAM license grants you. The handheld could then be a supplement.

I'm with this guy, too. You should be able to find a cheap CB rig on craigslist/ebay/garage sale/walmart/ whatever for $20-$30 and another $10-$20 for an antenna. Just don't get carried away with and put your money into the Ham rig. I also recommend a mobile first. I bought a little VX-1 handheld thinking it would be a good 'starter' radio but after all is said and done I wish I would have put the money into a good mobile rig first (I'm partial towards the Yaesu radios) and then save your pennies for a handheld down the road. With the added power and options the mobile will get you going the right direction and you won't get frustrated by the limitations of the handheld.

 

[Luke]

Contrary to many of the post here ham radio is not just a 2 meter or dual band radio.

Very true. I would love to branch out into the HF world but the cost of equipment is the only catching point. Even for a low end used HF tranciever you're looking at least $400, not to mention the typically very large antennas. I believe the 2m/70cm bands are most popular for your average mobile operator because the antennas are small and radios are inexpensive.