Heat sources, option comparisons.

[Ramdough]

So, I am comparing options for heat in a slide on camper.

Option 1:
I have seen a lot of propane heaters and propane water heaters available.

Option 2:
I have also seen the hydronic diesel water heater with water tank and diesel air heater.

Option 3:
Also, there is the hydronic diesel heater with water tank and a radiator/fan combination.

Options 2 and 3 could use vehicle engine water heat to supplement heating water while driving possibly.

I would think that option 1 would be cheapest and easier to find replacement parts when traveling in the US. Option 2 would probably be the best performing but cost the most. Option 3 would be a cheaper less performing version of 2.

What do you think?


Thanks.

 

[kmlacroix]

http://www.mrheater.com/sporting/little-buddy-heater-massachusetts-and-canada-version.html

http://www.mrheater.com/sporting/portable-buddy-heater-massachusetts-and-canada-version.html

http://www.mrheater.com/sporting/big-buddy-portable-heater-massachusetts-and-canada-version.html

 

[Ramdough]

Thank you for the response, but I am primarily interested in the pros and cons to the three systems I have listed and which one everyone thinks is better.

The links you have supplied are not included in my three options I am considering. I already have a heater like those and I am looking for a built in style system. After I select a style, I will select specific models.

Thanks

 

[Haf-E]

Propane heaters tend to be cheaper and simpler - easier to fix / have repaired. Problem is its an additional fuel and its hard to estimate the remaining amount left in a tank.

Diesel heaters (whether hydro or air) are more expensive and complex - harder to get parts for / have repaired. Benefit is it uses the fuel you have in the vehicle tank (assuming the vehicle uses diesel).

The choice of going with two heaters (one hydro / one air) seems overly expensive - better option is to have one heater and have it valved to allow it to also preheat the engine or not. I've seen people who have it setup to always put heat into the engine and the only issue is longer warm up time period before you feel it putting out heat if the engine was cold and probably greater fuel consumption / longer run periods.

If you plan on removing the camper than having the camper's heater separate from the engine system makes it all much easier when you have to remove the camper.

Also - if you are going to use propane for other purposes (stove, shower heater, etc) than just getting a bigger tank (such as the transparent composite ones) make it a lot easier to know how much you used. They are hard to find due to a recall on one brand - but they are available still.

 

[Ramdough]

Thanks for your response.

I am looking at a flat bed tray style camper. Most likely for a future Toyota Tacoma (currently gasoline models). The idea is that I can swap the camper from vehicle to future vehicle. I would like to eventually have a diesel version but options are limited in the US.

I do not mind having a small diesel tank that is stand alone (regardless of vehicle fuel type), in fact I prefer having it separate for safety reasons. Are the tanks in recall or the heaters?

I plan to heat water for a shower and sink, and also heat air as well for comfort. Heating the engine water would be a bonus. If I heated the engine water, I would have an isolation valve for camping mode.

Most likely, I would build my water tank, water heater tank, diesel tank, hydronic heater, batteries, inverter, and charger into a modular section of the flat bed that could be removed and moved to the next vehicle. Picture a flat bed that is flat above the tires (high enough to clear articulating tires), the space between the top of the truck frame and the underside of the flat bed would house a subframe that held the modular unit. If I swapped to a new vehicle, I would just update the subframe to the new vehicle bolt pattern and move the service module over. That is the concept right now.

So, I am leaning towards a diesel hydronic unit and possibly a diesel air unit since I don't use propane for anything as it is right now. Diesel is also easier to find it seams than propane. I just wanted to know what everyone else thought.

I guess I would need an expansion tank too if I use an isolation valve for camping mode.

Would a radiator with a hydronic unit work just as well as having a dedicated air unit? It seams to me that it could not be as efficient or effective as having a seperate unit.

Thanks

 

[Ramdough]

Oh, btw....

If I had a separate service module in the flat bed, I would have quick disconnects to the camper for power, cold water, and hot water.

All my heavy stuff would be low and forward. When my flat bed were empty, I would still have some weight penalty, but empty fuel/water tanks and would help. Also, my charging circuits and coolant lines would never need to be broken to split the camper from the bed.

 

[Haf-E]

Sounds feasible - just a fair amount of work.

Using a small radiator for heating air in the camper from the engine/heater coolant would work and would be my first choice. It also would allow you to heat up the camper while driving using the engine heat if the hydro heater and air coil was connected to the engine. I checked with a buddy who has the combined camper / engine heating system and he thinks its not worth the effort of adding isolation valves to the system, BTW.

Another big advantage of using the hydro "engine" type heater is that the heater itself can be outside of the living space - giving more room in the camper and making the operation of the heater quieter inside. Lots of the air heater are loud and tend to cycle often and some have a constant fan operation even.

Another option to consider for heating the camper is using a radiant floor heating loop - it is great for drying out wet floors and even shoes - also doesn't take up any space. Only issue is that the temperature of the coolant would be pretty high - might be too high even for the floor. Guess you could put the circ pump on a timer or t-stat and cycle it on and off.

I guess it also all depends on how much cold weather camping you are planning and where you live.

 

[Ramdough]

Thanks again for your response. I think my design is chosen. I will use the hydronic heater and place it in my services pod under my flatbed. I will have the coolant heated water tank directly after the heater and then a radiator loop. I probably will still have an isolation valve and expansion tank. I might have minimal radiant heat under the floor and possibly a trickle loop near the water tanks to keep them from freezing (maybe). The camper will most likely have a tent like area and will be predominantly used in hot weather so I will need to valve off any heater loops. There is a good chance that I will skip the floor loop all together.

 

[Ramdough]

This similar to what I am thinking of doing on a smaller scale.

http://www.xor.org.uk/unimog/mymog/waterbox.htm

 

[Ramdough]

I would also like to have a bypass able connection to the engine coolant so I can both preheat the truck and warm the camper when driving. I have not figured that part out yet.

 

[Joe917]

http://www.webasto.com/int/markets-products/recreational-vehicles/product-configurator-rv/

We use a Webasto thermo top C, (TSL17 in North America)

http://www.iandmelectric.com/products/webasto-tsl-17-engine-pre-heater-12-volt?variant=24413082

A large radiator in the living space and a heated towel bar in the bathroom works great. Match it up with an isotherm spa heater for your hot water.

Isolation valves allow full control, heat domestic water and or radiators from engine or Webasto. Close engine circuit when stopped and heat radiators with Webasto, open engine circuit to preheat engine before departure. The system works perfectly I highly recommend it. The Webasto maintains the coolant temp at 70 degC, thermostatic valves on the radiators control cabin temp.

Esparcher is the other big name in mobile diesel heating but I have no experience with them.

 

[Ramdough]

Do you have any pictures or schematics of you system? Thanks.