Help for an electrical know-nothing!

[Dave in AZ]

Apologies if I come off as being tedious, but I genuinely know almost nothing about electrical stuff. Can you help me understand this a little bit better? What/where exactly is my 100W DC input?

I just tested the truck's inverter today charging a cordless drill battery, and it seems to work fine. What I'm wanting to find out is if there's any reason not to just plug a power station (such as Bluetti) into the inverter, with the fridge in turn plugged into the power station. Between this setup charging the power station while driving and a portable solar panel charging it while camped, I think my needs would be covered.

One drawback I've heard is that some power stations don't charge very quickly when plugged into a vehicle's inverter. Does anyone know of a way to overcome this?

You asked about the 100w dc input that rruff mentioned. He was talking about the cigarette lighter plugin that the Bluetti ac200max has, and most all cars have. You also asked about,

power stations don't charge very quickly when plugged into a vehicle's inverter. Does anyone know of a way to overcome this?

This isn't quite right, it is that power stations recharge slowly when plugged into a car's standard available cigarette lighter! Why? Because in order to keep those from catching fire, they were standardized at 100w max long ago! A few are 12v 10a, so 120w max, but in general that round plug in your car can deliver 100w. Because of this, most all power stations have an input to be easily plugged into the one pre-existing 12 source in every car, the 100w cigarette lighter. But 100w isn't much power, your Bluetti ac2000max would take 20 hours if driving, x 100w per hour, to recharge 2000wh.

Now, none of that has anything to do with a car inverter. Existing car inverters are a new and rare thing, in some pickup truck beds. So they can run some smaller power tools. And YES, you can just plug your power station directly into that inverter outlet in the F150, no wiring or messing around, easy. My Tacoma can deliver 400w when sitting still. I looked up some pages on the f150 invertor, it depends on your trim model and year, but they had 400w up to 2000w. That is your easiest solution, as you guessed.

Here are the specs for the input output for the ac200max. You can see the 100w car dc input listed at bottom, the ac standard charger 500w input near top, the 900w solar input, etc.

 

[dstefan]

Hey all,

I have a 2015 4x4 F-150. I am planning on having a shop wire a 110-volt connection from my alternator to my truck bed (always covered by a camper shell). The purpose of this is so that I can plug in a portable power station that charges while the truck is running, and stops drawing power when the truck is off. The main thing I'll have plugged into the power station is a 45 qt fridge, probably an IceCo.

The thing is, the guy at the shop told me to pick up an inverter (I think he may have meant converter?) for this, but I have no idea what I need. Any help you can offer? I know basically nothing about electrical systems! Thanks!

Honestly I think you are overcomplicating things here and about to drop $2000 on a mismatched system you may not love long term (unit + the custom wiring by a shop). The “solar generators”, even the more powerful ones like the Bluetti are really designed for weekend use, and (cynically) to sell you expensive solar panels of the same brand.

The simpler and more robust system, and one that will grow with your needs and use for the months long trips you reference would be a good 100-125ah LiFePo battery, a DCDC charger from your starter, and some simple wiring and a fuse block. If you have to bring a coffee maker and other 120 volt appliances get a slightly larger battery and an inverter. But truly I think you may find the 120v stuff is just not needed.

Having someone wire an extra inverter run in your truck from your starter/alternator to take 12v to 120 to go back to 12v is just expensive and really inefficient. AFAIK the best practice for a lot of reasons is keep the vehicle systems separate from the camping systems. Just take the alternator ouput when the truck is running through a DCDC charger that will automatically give you the correct voltage for your camping battery.

DC-25 Power Pack

The National Luna Power Pack DC25 blends the convenience of a portable battery system and the performance of a DC-DC battery charger with MPPT solar regulator. This combination results in a self-contained split-charge system that is at-home in the vehicle or in camp and can be used to power...

www.equipt1.com

Unless you’re gonna sit in camp for more than 5 nights without moving the vehicle AND run a bunch of 120v appliances, you can do just fine on 100ah and a DCDC charger. I run my Maxfan damn near 24 hours along with ARB fridge and lights and charging devices, 12 v electric blanket, etc, and quit bringing my portable solar. Just not needed. My 100ah last 5 days with no problem, and when I’m driving charges at 25amps. It goes from 30% to 100% charged in about 3 to 4 hours while driving. For just a night or two in one place it’s just an hour of driving.

If you really need portability of the unit, or just don’t want to wire components together, look at the National Luna DCDC Power Pack. Has the DCDC charger built in along with MPPT controller if you have to have solar, lots of ports, etc, but no inverter. Fits standard size batteries, has 50 amp Anderson outlets and is really easy to hook up to the starter battery with the DCDC. They even give you 25’ of 6awg cable and fuses. I love mine, but in hindsight, I’d be just as happy as wiring my own components together, though at the time 2 1/2 years ago, I felt a bit intimidated too. It’s really not that hard, but takes some research and a few tools.

Good luck with whatever you do!

 

[EarthboundBob]

Honestly I think you are overcomplicating things here and about to drop $2000 on a mismatched system you may not love long term (unit + the custom wiring by a shop). The “solar generators”, even the more powerful ones like the Bluetti are really designed for weekend use, and (cynically) to sell you expensive solar panels of the same brand.

The simpler and more robust system, and one that will grow with your needs and use for the months long trips you reference would be a good 100-125ah LiFePo battery, a DCDC charger from your starter, and some simple wiring and a fuse block.

Thanks for your perspective; this is helpful to hear.

With a dual battery setup, though, I'd still need to run a wire and outlet to the bed of the truck; I can't fit the fridge in the cab, since it'll be fully occupied with me, my wife, and our three kids. Aside from that, you bring up some real advantages of going this route that I need to consider.

 

[dstefan]

Thanks for your perspective; this is helpful to hear.

With a dual battery setup, though, I'd still need to run a wire and outlet to the bed of the truck; I can't fit the fridge in the cab, since it'll be fully occupied with me, my wife, and our three kids. Aside from that, you bring up some real advantages of going this route that I need to consider.

Agreed. However, running a cable from one of the outlet grommets in your truck bed along the frame rails and up to a fuse on your battery is dead simple. Just buy some loom on Amazon to protect the cable and cable tie it as you go. On my truck, I could follow Toyota’s major cables pretty easily up into the engine bay. There’s nothing really technical. Just make sure you have the right guage cable, but 6awg works fine. You can also buy cable with pre-made terminal ends, if you don’t want to make your own (requires a crimping tool and terminal ends, but it’s simple to do). Powerwerx is a good place.

https://powerwerx.com/

 

[dstefan]

Don’t know if this would be helpful to you, but here’s a synopsis of my electrical in the camper from another thread.

Continuing on with electrical . . .

I ran my non-camper 2nd Gen Tacoma with dual Odesseys with my 50qt ARB as the primary draw on the aux battery. Weight management is a big issue for me so wanted LiFePo for weight to amp hour ratio. Plus figured I'd have other other draws in the camper, so a 100 AH Battleborn gives me 3x the AHs for half the weight of my old Odyessy.

Decided on the National Luna DCDC Powerpack (AKA green box). Got some good holiday deals last year, but it may not be the cheapest way to go. I seriously researched the Jackery and others. Lack of good non-solar charging option along with skepticism about Li-ion durability and handing high Phoenix heat as well as the superior amount of amp hours available put me squarely in the Battleborn LiFePo camp. I also don't want to have to install constant rooftop solar if I can avoid it.

View attachment 699692
View attachment 699693
Pro's:
-- Easy to remove (necessary in Phoenix summers where the camper outside can easily get over 120;
-- has 4 50amp Anderson Power Ports (2 for either input or output, 1 for connection to starter battery for charging, 1 for solar input through built in MPPT controller)
-- multiple other USB ports, 12v cigarette ports and 1 Hella port (sometimes called Powerlet), which is higher amp (15 I think) and snaps tight vs normal 12v cigarette ports
-- came with 25 feet of 16mm (~6AWG) cable for the battery connection with fuses and pre-done Anderson plug
-- 25 amp DCDC charger, with Li profile that fits Battleborns
-- MPPT Solar controller
-- On/Off circuit breaker
-- Ports are all pretty easy to switch out can customize, except for the Andersons
-- Year end deal last year included a hardwired monitor, which is pretty useful to watch the solar charging on my portable solar panel when I use it.
-- I could take it out easily and use it in my 4Runner as well
-- I think it's cheaper and/or more versatile than one of the solar generators for the power

Cons:
-- several $100s more expensive than building my own system
-- Stuck with the box configuration. Can't separate components (well, can't do so easily)
-- No inverter as with Jackery's , etc. I used a Victron Phoenix 500amp inverter as you can see in the picture above. Don't really have much heavy duty AC power needs.

Rest of configuration:
I ran the charging cable in a heavy duty loom out the OEM grommets in the Tundra cab bulkhead passenger side and followed the existing P-side electrical lines to the engine bay and starter battery. You can see the cable under the bedrail and then velcro'd to the Bedrug down to the exit in the right corner.
View attachment 699694
My wiring run is kinda long as I'm putting my water cans in the P-side corner to be opposite of the 38 gallon gas tank for weight distribution and didn't want the battery box around the water. Plus, Toyota puts their batteries on the D-side, so I had to add about 8' more 6AWG cable to the supplied cable, but it worked out great.

My camper electrics are in the rear D-side
View attachment 699695
I rive-nutted two bolts on the right side and used a self tapping lathe screw on the left in the corner (where it's too tight for a rivnut) to attach a 1/4" baltic birch panel. Used 8AWG from the battery cable tied under the bedrail to go up to the Bluesea switch box. I really like the Bluesea box. Water resistant with 4 15amp breaker switches. I found a great gasket sealed plastic box on Amazon that the panel fits perfectly into a cutout I made on the lid so I can just open the box for wiring or changes without pulling the panel board. My Maxxair fan goes to one switch, a set of 5 Led lights for the cabin goes to another, the built in 12v port and dual USBs are switched from the top switch (comes that way) and I have one left for future use.

And, it's mounted upside down . . . I actually did that on purpose to put the USB port up high for an out of the way plug-in for a Luminoodle I have which we attach under the awning at night.

FYI -- Bluesea makes a 6 switch version of this little panel which might be more useful -- gives you 3 more switches than this since there's no 12v or USB on that one.

We've really liked these little lights, which I found on Powerwerx. https://powerwerx.com/pwrbrite-led-light-strip
They draw only milliamps, are clip mounted, can be rotated and have an on-off switch. They come with 6ft of cord and and Anderson plug.
View attachment 699697

I mounted two inside the cabover hinge for reading lights. They work great with the ability to aim the light, which also allows managing the intensity by rotating into the wall or bounce off the ceiling ,etc.
View attachment 699699
There's another over my fridge on the D side at the tailgate Also wired in an Anderson plug to the main light switch in the panel and got a 5th light that I put velco on the mounts so I can move it around and stretch it out under the awning over my stove at night (sorry no pics yet). You can supposedly get colored tubes for them, but they're always out of stock, so I bought a sheet of photo flash gel and scotched taped my own for a bug light.
View attachment 699701
Finally the fridge . . .
I didn't want to have my fridge go through the ports on the front panel of my Powerpack. The 12v ports aren't secure enough to guarantee the connection won't come loose off-road and I didn't want to have the on/off switch turn the power off to the fridge. I could have used one of the 50amp output ports, but that's overkill, plus I use them all. So, I drilled a hole in the side of the box and wired ARB's 10awg fridge loom with it's in-line fuse directly to the battery using a15-45amp Anderson plug. I really like the loom as it has a screw-in plug on the other end for the fridge, so nothing can rattle out. Anderson plugs CAN separate, but I'm using one of their clips to secure it so there's no chance of the fridge disconnecting anywhere in the circuit.
View attachment 699717
You can also see I put in a Victron smart shunt (upper right corner) so I can monitor amps in an out, voltage and charging via Bluetooth on my phone. Very useful.

Finally, I cut a hole in the P-side and wired in a Noco external plug, so I can just plug external power through the wall. Lets me pre-cool the fridge (now that I have to park outside) all night with the camper locked. Just pull the extension cord and the fridge switches over to DC and we can head out.
View attachment 699718
I eventually bought a Victron charger for the battery. One really unexpected benefit was that it turns out that it has a setting for using it as a 12v power source. I just cut off their plug, put a 50amp Anderson plug on it and now I can either charge the battery or run on DC without the battery by connecting to the input plug for my camper wiring. I used this feature a lot when finishing the build out. I haven't used it camping, but if I know I'm going to have shore power it gives me the option, though mostly we're fully off grid.

At this point I'm really happy with the electrical system. It's real easy to work with and performs well. If I was doing it again, I'd have to think real hard about making my own battery box and using a separate DCDC charger and MPPT controller.

There's some advantages of the custom system, but it's a PITA to design and configure, especially without some background in it. I'm used to AC electric work around the house and have done some limited DC work, but wasn't really versed in cabling, crimping, etc and didn't have the tools. I thought I could do the NL Powerpack as simple plug and play and avoid buying a bunch of crimpers, etc.

I did order some premade cables from Powerwerx, but in the end it's expensive to go that route, and I kept finding things I wanted to do, so I just bit the bullet and bought the tools to DIY, and I'm glad I did. I still think, given my level of skill and knowledge at the beginning, the NL Powerpack was the right decision, but if I was doing it in the future again, I'll do my own, now that I'm past the initial learning curve.

 

[Dave in AZ]

And YES, you can just plug your power station directly into that inverter outlet in the F150, no wiring or messing around, easy. My Tacoma can deliver 400w when sitting still. I looked up some pages on the f150 invertor, it depends on your trim model and year, but they had 400w up to 2000w. That is your easiest solution, as you guessed.

Just in case it wasn't clear from that, if you're buying a power station, you can just plug it into 120v socket in your puckup bed that your f150 provides. It will charge at upbto 500w if the f150 supplied inverter supports that, and recharge a whopping 2000wh, the whole ac200max, in 4 hours driving. You wouldn't have to run a single wire.

If you decide that doing your own "2nd battery" system sounds good, like dstephan described, I agree with all his post. Every person who ever thought, "I'd like to run a fridge in my bed, and get power from my alternator!", is EXACTLY talking about a 2nd battery or house battery system.

Here are some good starter info "how to" for that. You can ignore the solar panels and inverter 120v stuff if you want, and the rest of the system stays exactly the same.

RV Solar Power Blue Prints

Building a vehicle mounted solar power system? Let me help.

www.mobile-solarpower.com

Here is Will Prowse, a great internet mobile power guy, showing you the basics:

Here is a 400 watt van/camper system video. Again, just to show it's easy, you can ignore solar and inverter for now if desired, but his point of making a system that can grow if needed, is a good one.

Redarc is a big company in 4x4 overlanding truck electrics, that is 2nd battery systems. Here is their guy talking about how to separate your house and starter batteries, so alternator charges both but you don't drain your starter battery. This is done with an Isolator, or better yet a dc-dc charger. Browse around their playlists on youtube, they have one called 2nd battery systems that has 12 vids explaining it all:


Every company out there makes a dc-dc charger to isolate your 2nd battery, properly charge both from alternator, add solar to same unit later if desired, trickle charge both batteries from solar, prioritize which battery to charge when, protect batteries from heat, overcharge, high voltages, etc... a ton of good stuff for extra $100. Redarc has expensive ones they call bcdc, renogy has a good one that Will Prowse links in that tutorial, etc.

 

[Dave in AZ]

Don’t know if this would be helpful to you, but here’s a synopsis of my electrical in the camper from another thread.

Just wanted to say thanks for posting that, I have read tons of your OVRLND build posts etc, and really enjoy all your stuff!