How fat is too fat for a Disco?

[Christophe Noel]

No, not another tire thread. I'm curious about overall weight of the vehicle. I imagine there is an advantage to a lighter rig, but how significant is that advantage, and what sort of weight savings is required to make a loaded DII "light."

By this I mean loaded for a week long jaunt. I don't have a steel bumper, winch, full rack, etc. I've even thought of pulling the rear seats. My wife and I are avid backpacker, mountaineer types so we pack light anyway.

So, does a super light DII have much advantage over a fully kitted and heavily loaded DII?

 

[KevinNY]

As the former owner of a fat *** disco II I would say that the slight advantage that could be gained would be offset by the destruction wrought on an unarmored rig going anyplace that the weight savings might have helped.

 

[UK4X4]

My D2 is semi sorted with 4" RTE sliders bumpers, winch etc etc..

For long road trips I often remove the rear seats, the items you will fill the space with probably weigh less than the seats anyway...they are heavy...

I don't run with a rack as I have a trailer.. the truck basicly just has clothes
first aid, rescue gear, spares and tools.

The seat space means the dog has a comfy spot and the gear level is below the windows.

All the camping gear is in the trailer.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I guess it depends on where you're going. There's a big difference between a week long jaunt in Moab, and a week long jaunt on logging roads. If you don't need the armor, then why carry around the weight? I'd imagine a light weight rig would have all the advantages you'd think. Better fuel consumption, probably better traction and capable of getting through more muck without getting stuck, probably better reliability of the axles, etc.

Just depends on what you're doing. I was getting flack from some dweebs for A) My truck being totally stock. B) Using my truck to the extent of it's stock capabilities on logging roads. and C) Using my stock truck within it's capabilities on logging roads without having any other vehicles with me. In a non-life threatening location. All in the same thread. It all seems a bit schizophrenic to me.

You don't have to build your truck up to increase it's capabilities so that you have to drive further to look for trails that challenge it. I don't see any reason why it's more ************ to build a truck up to do level 5 trails, and then do level 5 trails, than it is to use your stock truck on level 3 trails. Both are equally challenging to the driver, and the only difference between the two is how much money you had to spend and how much on-road ability you are willing to sacrifice. I believe in simple mods that accentuate the off-road ability without taking too much away from the on-road manners. I laugh when guys build up their truck to the point that it's really uncomfortable or unsafe on-road and end up not driving it on-road, trailering it to events, etc... I don't get it. All that, and the thing is still less capable than any stock ATV.

If you're going through tough stuff and need the armor, then... you need the armor. And I wouldn't go very far without at least some recovery gear. A hilift and chain, etc.

As for the camping gear, I'm trying to keep it light and simple, because that's a place where I think much savings can be made. You can go backpacking for a week with 60lbs of gear. Why do we need 500lbs just because we're in a truck? Just because we can. But you don't have to.

 

[RonL]

I carry all the recovery gear I have, when in the woods. You never know when you will need it. My total weight is 5250lb with full tank of gas, tools, and no people. When I am loaded with the wife, 3 three kids, and the dog for a week of offroading, I weight closer to 6000lbs.

The one time you need a tool or some recovery equipment and it is in the garage at home, you will start carrying more stuff. If you don't need rear seats, leave them at home, but don't skip on the recovery gear or tools.

 

[Christophe Noel]

Vehicle A)
Fully kitted with armour, winches, jerry cans, rull roof rack, drawer system in the rear, refridgerator, roof top tent, etc. Gear and mods could easily add 1000 pounds to the rig.

Vehicle B)
The only mods being a moderate lift, appropriate tires and so on. Seats removed and the total amount of gear inside under 200lbs, so almost back to stock weight.

If the route is appropriate for vehicle B, meaning no real need for heavy armour, will vehicle A suffer any penalties for that weight? Fuel consumption should suffer, but by how much? What about traversing moderately challenging sections, will the heavy vehicle lumbar along?

 

[DaveInDenver]

It's pretty much true that all those skid plates and bumpers and sliders are just useless weight until a 4" broken branch spears your transmission pan or engine sump. I guess it depends on the risk you're willing to expose yourself to. I personally wouldn't leave pavement without some minimal underside protection and having solid jack and recovery points around the truck is essential. I think it can get out of hand, but some minimal plate with sufficient coverage I think is worth the weight. But I'm in agreement that you have to weigh all the options, weight vs. ruggedness. Sometimes we get too focused on the worst case or follow a ridiculously over-build everything path. Gotta step back and decide what do you really need and what's overkill.

 

[TeriAnn]

Darling, you can never be too skinny or have too much RAM.

There are two schools of off road vehicle weight, one is to weight as little as possible and dance over the top of obstacles, the other is to armor up, strengthen everything and force you way through. The Suzuki Sidekick school and the duce and a half school.

Body armor and heavy duty parts add weight which means you need them more. The less you weigh, the less you need heavy weight reinforcement.

What base vehicle you have largely determines which school you will be in. What you do with your vehicle will determine how much weight you can add or remove from base stock.

Personally I'm in the school which believes that you pack as lightly as appropriate for the trip mission and add the least amount of weight as possible to the vehicle itself as needed to get the loaded vehicle there and back with a high degree of reliability.

Say what?

I suggest using the most appropriate gear for your trip. For instance, back pack cooking gear is optimized for light weight and compactness, not for doing a good job of cooking your meals. Nestable thick wall aluminum pots & pans take up more space and weight but are much better at allowing you to cook a tasty meal. Anyone can put up with most anything for a weekend but if you are going to be out for a couple weeks you want to be as comfortable as possible. So for a weekender or long weekend, a back pack cook set is OK and saves a couple pounds. But for a week or longer the extra weight of think wall aluminum cookware is offset by your ability to more accurately control your cooking. Aluminum cookware requires less energy to cook a meal than steel or iron and saves propane weight as a side effect. There are a lot of choices like that which can be influenced by the length of trip you are taking and the environment you will be traveling through.

Try to build your vehicle as light weight as possible. Don't add the weight of body armor for just in case as the extra weight will make just in case more probable. Remove weight if you can. If you don't need rear seats, take them out. I started with a stock vehicle and discovered that I didn't need body armor for the places I drive and the kinds of driving I do. I added a rear diff protector because I can not see where I'm placing my rear diff whilst backing up. And that's it for my just in case armor. I rely upon driving technique and a strong sense of self preservation to get my vehicle through undamaged. When I break something once I assume it was wear or chance. When I break it a second time I feel that is because the part is too weak and needs upgrading.

Most suspension or drive train mods don't significantly change the vehicle weight but they do tend to add more which in tern may require additional upgrading to handle the extra weight.

My suggestion:

• pack appropriately for the trip, keeping the weight down without sacrificing function
  
• Minimize excess vehicle weight by removing what you are not using and not adding things that you have not proven that you need. Just in case mods add weight which in turn makes just in case more likely to happen.
  

weight is the enemy, driving technique is your friend that can negate the need for extra weight

 

[Z O O R O P A]

speaking of the Disco II

has anyone put 18inch BFG ATs on their Disco?

I wonder if 18inch off road/AT wheels will continue to be produced since they just made their introduction right when gas goes nuts and the price of tires is going through the roof as well

I was thinking of putting a pair on but would hate to do any worse than the 300 miles I got with Cooper Discoverys

 

[overlanddisco]

Weight

You're starting at 4500 (+-) lbs for a stock Disco, so light weight we're not.

Establishing a reasonable end point for what you want to do, then doing the build to achieve that end point with a high probability of (1) returning, (2) minimizing/eliminating damage based on the acceptable risks will get you a long way down the trail.

Of course this requires a ginormous amount of planning, researching and talking to those that have gone before. The actual build is minimal compared to the research/learning curve to be done right.

As Terri Ann states, the requirements will also change depending on where you want to go, seasons/weather, time out in the field, etc, etc. Sort of like equipping a bug-out bag, one size does NOT fit all situations/seasons.

 

[Pad]

I was going to comment about how my old stripped out Rangie did really well of road.
Stock diff's, 235/85's and zero in the back, no seats no carpet, no armor (yes dents and scratches) went places built up rangie's went (well most places)
But now all I can think about is 'Truck-Jousting'!!!!
Assuming everone was ok since their's no torsal on the end of that tree.

Pad

 

[TeriAnn]

This is a very extreme corner case, but this was caused by a something you don't see happening. He was on a logging road and probably was out driving his lights, but still he was not rock crawling and had to be moving pretty dang swiftly to do this.

Wow! looking at the truck, it had hundreds of pounds of body armor, just not a jousting shield. I agree excrement happens even with the best of caution but an awful lot can be avoided with a strong sense of self and vehicle preservation. Like not out driving your lights. Of course now I do have 140 watt headlamp bright beams plus 400 watts of Hella roof lamps. But I also tend to drive slow at night since I learned first hand how deer can materialize out of thin air immediately in front of your bumper.

My thinking is leaving critical systems without some minimal protection is just too risky.

<<SNIP>>

So I think the point is to do some chin scratching as you lay on the creeper under your rig. What part of the mission critical systems is exposed and what can you do to reasonably reduce the chance a thrown rock or branch could lodge into, tear off or go through something critcal, like a fuel tank, brake line, sump pan.

I feel fortunate that things are pretty well protected in a Series Land Rover compared to most other trucks, including Defenders. The steering is tucked up behind the bumper and not hanging low like the Land Rover coilers.

Yes there are things that could get damaged if you drive over a big enough obstacle in such as way as to introduce the truck to the obstacle. But a lot of driving skill is learning how to keep obstacles and car parts separated. But I guess I'm a timid driver in that I tend not to drive in places where I have no choice but to damage my vehicle beyond the normal brush scratches from overgrown trails.

But proper underside armor is more important than I think some people consider. It's not just for crawlers, although most of us don't need 3/16" or 1/4" plate when 11 gauge sheet or even expanded metal would provide plenty of real protection at substantially less weight.

A lot of what is needed depends upon the vehicle, the terrain and the driver. If I had a LR coiler I would be one of the first people out there adding steering protection. Maybe I've just lucked out during the last 30 years I've driven The Green Rover or maybe I'm just too timid a driver to go where damage almost MUST result or maybe I have just been focused on developing driving skills that minimize vehicle damage, through lord knows I've done more of my share of trailside mechanical repairs.

I agree it's important to know the underside of your vehicle and what's vulnerable where. But I also think armor adds weight, sometimes decreases ground clearance and that driving to best protect the vulnerable area is a very good skill to develop. Excrement happens but a lot less often if you know your vulnerable spots and pay a lot of attention as to where you place you tyres.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Yes there are things that could get damaged if you drive over a big enough obstacle in such as way as to introduce the truck to the obstacle. But a lot of driving skill is learning how to keep obstacles and car parts separated. But I guess I'm a timid driver in that I tend not to drive in places where I have no choice but to damage my vehicle beyond the normal brush scratches from overgrown trails.

Very valid points, all of them. I did once hear of a fella who'd puncture his oil pan on a yucca. I believe it happened when he was parking at a nice camp spot, so it's not just rocks I'm thinking about. Certainly I think most cases it comes down to a matter of knowing your truck and environment, though.

 

[Pad]

Wow! looking at the truck, it had hundreds of pounds of body armor, just not a jousting shield.

Thats it I'm getting 'headlight skid-plates'!!!!

 

[DaveInDenver]

Thats it I'm getting 'headlight skid-plates'!!!!