International 3800 adventure bus build

HazeltheMooseWagon

Active member
Thanks for the response, Baipin. That’s what I like about this forum vs Instagram or other social platforms, people actually leave useful, thoughtful comments out of genuine interest.

As for blanking more windows, I’m well settled on the quantity and type of windows I have. As you may recall, we are a family of 9 who will be using this as a road trip rig for weekend excursions up to 2-3 week trips at the longest. We also probably won’t be doing much cold weather camping as we are from the south and prefer to enjoy the outdoors when the weather is mild.

It is very important to me to have as much natural light as possible and for everyone to be able to see out very well. Also, I sprayed a water hose at the windows and inspected all of them during multiple rainstorms looking for leaks just after I removed the inside sheet metal and was surprised at how few leaks I found. Most of them were a result of spraying the water upwards at the seam between the upper and lower panes. That was with the crappy old factory weatherstripping. I’ll be installing these with polyurethane sealant.

I had an idea to put fabric covered foam panels inside pockets in the sidewalls that could slide up into place or back down into the walls. The problem with that is I can only see it being feasible with using foam board insulation in the walls. I am pretty much set on spray foam for the walls and ceiling for the sound deadening properties and the 100% adhesion it will have to the skin and ribs. I plan to have thermal breaks nearly everywhere. My current curtain idea is to have flexible panels that roll up and hang above each window. They will velcro on the top, bottom, and both sides of each window, creating a 1.5”-2” air gap between the window and the curtain. That should be pretty effective insulation and will stop the greenhouse effect since there won’t be an open passage for air to flow. That’s the reason I was planning on using Reflectix, I’m wanting more of a vapor barrier.

I have other projects currently going on as well and will post more pics next week.


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HazeltheMooseWagon

Active member
The bus had minimal rust when I got it, and most of the floor rust was where the heaters were installed. I have been cutting out and replacing parts that were badly pitted. The edges of the rear wheel wells were pretty rusty as well. I’ll be undercoating and applying POR15 after the welding is completed. I’ll probably also create an inner fender liner eventually to keep mud from packing up in the corners and crevices. It may even double as a fender flare.
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GabrielleTucker

New member
Buses are such an excellent starting point for builds like this, and I love how well-thought-out everything is. If you have a family of nine, you will need a reliable car to sustain you on these adventures.
 
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HazeltheMooseWagon

Active member
Well, it's been a while and I have a few updates to the bus build. Windows have all been sealed well, holes have been welded in the floor, and window screens have been fabricated. That means we're waterproof, mosquito proof, and somewhat air tight(ish). We've been going on short adventures and have camped in it a few nights. Hopefully I'll be able to make some good progress on it in 2024. I have done a lot of planning for the interior of the build as well as the tires, wheels, and suspension. I wanted to share a concept I have for cross-linked hydraulic cylinders that will serve as suspension dampers as well as take the place of traditional sway bars. It also includes an optional hydraulic setup to allow for side to side tilting. Feel free to comment on the viability of this design and let me know if you see any potential pitfalls.
 

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BSR

Utter Numpty
Looks like a fun project.
Do you plan to manually control the height/rebound/deflection of each wheel with the hand operated valve in your drawing or do you envisage using orifice plate and a flow control valve to replace the anti-roll bar setup?
There is some useful info on the setup Citroen used for many years doing the same here: https://www.citroenet.org.uk/miscellaneous/hydraulics/hydraulics-2.html This is a well proven model and may suit your purpose.

Such a system could be easy isolated from a separate circuit for your manually controlled system using a simple 3/2 valve, giving you the control you require for side slopes or uneven camping ground.

Be interested to see how you progress.
 

HazeltheMooseWagon

Active member
The hand operated valve would only be used to force side to side leaning and would get its hydraulic flow from a hydraulic pump in the steering's open loop system. The tops of the driver's side cylinders are connected to the bottoms of the passenger's side cylinders and vice-versa which provides the anti-roll characteristics. This also helps to equalize tire ground pressure by removing spring rates from the calculation when connecting front air springs to one another and rear air springs to one another. The cylinder at each corner would be, lets say, 3" bore by 18" stroke and there must be a cylinder with the same bore diameter but twice the stroke (36") between the tops of cylinders on one side and the bottoms of the other side. This is to compensate for the volume differences above and below pistons due to rod diameter (which must also be consistent with each cylinder). This setup allows the height of the vehicle to be adjustable by varying the air pressures in the bags which will also have levelling valves. The dampers would work at any height because there is an equal volume at all times between the two circuits (unless leaning valve is actuated). Compression and rebound could be controlled by installing adjustable flow control valves and check valves at key places in the circuits.

Normal shocks have Viton seals which withstand much higher temperatures (around 400F) than typical rubber seals. Parker-Hannifin offers high-temp energized PTFE seals for their RDH line of cylinder that are rated for +400F, so I don't think temperature should be much of an issue, especially with the size of the cylinders and high volume of fluid.
 

BBD

New member
Any update on moving the axle forward like your initial sketch? Curious of your thoughts & if you were able to do it.

Great thread & progress on the build.
 

HazeltheMooseWagon

Active member
Any update on moving the axle forward like your initial sketch? Curious of your thoughts & if you were able to do it.

Great thread & progress on the build.
I haven't moved the front axle yet. I'm considering whether that is the next logical step in testing larger tires or whether I should move straight onto building a 4-link with panhard bar. I want to get the final ride height set (probably 10" higher than it currently is) sooner than later so I can also start planning underbody storage and a larger fuel tank. I don't want to build 7" blocks for the front end, so moving straight into a 4-link is probably more economical considering that is what I want the end result to be anyway.
 
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HazeltheMooseWagon

Active member
Sorry if this question offends you... But why do you feel the need to over complicate things? Hydraulic suspension on an old school bus, REALLY??? Do you have so much spare time and money that you have to dream up way of making sure that your project camper will never be completed? And if by chance you do complete it... Are you willing ruin fun adventure trips because of system failures???

I'm not talking out of my "hind-end" here! I've owned an Industrial Design company ( with 5-Axis machining, and fabricating in house) for over 40 years and the most successful projects I've been involved in are the ones where I convince my clients to : DUMB IT DOWN!
And the biggest failures are the ones that the clients JUST MUST HAVE all the "bells & whistles"! When I'm talking about clients I'm not talking about some "goofballs", I'm talking about NASA, US Army, & the former US importers of Lamborghini ( and hands full of others)!
Trust me! You will burn through all your money, patience, and tolerance of wife/ family... By just doing it a practically as possible!
Do you have any specific feedback about the suspension design I have posed? Have you ever attempted a project like this? Have you ever researched Toyota's KDSS system, the new JLTV suspension system, or Citroen's similar design from the 1960's? I'm not offended by your comment because I recognize that you are trolling me. You actually just made my day and I look forward to the wealth of knowledge and wisdom that you will surely bring to this conversation from your 40 years of working on space ships, Lamborghinis, and army tanks.
 

HazeltheMooseWagon

Active member
The bus has air brakes and a hydraulic gear pump driven off the back of the air compressor. The shocks are not powered and they are in a closed-loop system. I don’t have plans for a 4x4 system anytime soon.
 

VANMAN

Observer
Im overseas...nice build...really don't know why guys come out of the gate being negative....I bought 1986 International S1800 Firetruck...4x4. Fabco SDA1200 front axle to convert to school bus..Frames are the same....kinda rethinking the bus thing cuz truck is so nice..21K on DT466...Plan on 13 speed Eaton.. Of Course now rethinking that seeing you're build....Ill post pics I have on laptop of axles....slow internet here
 

HazeltheMooseWagon

Active member
Im overseas...nice build...really don't know why guys come out of the gate being negative....I bought 1986 International S1800 Firetruck...4x4. Fabco SDA1200 front axle to convert to school bus..Frames are the same....kinda rethinking the bus thing cuz truck is so nice..21K on DT466...Plan on 13 speed Eaton.. Of Course now rethinking that seeing you're build....Ill post pics I have on laptop of axles....slow internet here
Thanks for the feedback VANMAN, your truck sounds really nice. That axle is probably what I will try to use if I ever do a 4x4 conversion. Buses aren't the most comfortable vehicles to start with and that's why I'm planning on investing a good portion of time and money on making it ride smoothly, flex adequately, and protect the interior furnishings as well as making it a pleasure to ride in. I forgot to mention that I have begun purchasing leather minivan seats for my passengers out of 2005+ Honda Odysseys. They are really comfortable, recline far, slide back and forth, and have two armrests each.IMG_9336.jpeg
 

VANMAN

Observer
Okay so what Im doing is 4 link parallel panhardE5MO7qxsQVicUHRg19gQ7Q.jpgL+9rB3p9TgeCGwP+sQcoTw.jpg bar airbag front...due to offset differential and Triangulated 4 link airbag rear...
 

HazeltheMooseWagon

Active member
Okay so what Im doing is 4 link parallel panhardView attachment 809822View attachment 809828 bar airbag front...due to offset differential and Triangulated 4 link airbag rear...
That’s a good looking truck! My planned bus suspension is the same as your plan, 4-link parallel front plus panhard bar and semi-triangulated rear. I plan on having my rear lower links parallel-ish and the rear upper bars triangulated but running from the top of the diff towards the rear of the bus. It would be much like a MAN KAT1 and seems to provide a better pinion angle when there’s a lot of droop to the suspension.
 

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