Is a CDL a must?

[Akrange]

This is my first post here, but I visited often as my husband is Superpowerdave. Some of you may also know me from LRR. I am posing this question here because I know most of you and your rigs have seen several different types of terrain.

I have '95 LWB that is strictly a trail rig and I am desperately trying to make it more capable on the trails. So I am starting with traction. I want to put in lockers, but don't know if I need a CDL to accomplish this. I have heard very conflicting information and am at a standstill at this point until I find out what my options are.

I currently have a Borg Warner TC in it right now that has not failed on me, nor have I had any problems with it. I have 115K miles on the rig. I will do the LT230 swap if I have to, but would rather not if it isn't necessary.

Does anyone know if I can put in rear lockers without having to do a LT230 install?

 

[Green96D1]

From what alot has been said the CDL is a huge improvement. And the Lockers will work better with the CDL.


Now with the BW T-case. I've seen RRC with a BW T-case climb up a hill and terrain that D1 with CDL didn't and both trucks had the same size tires 255/85's I don't know much about RRC's but I do know that in capable hands the BW T-case is a pretty impressive 4x4 system.

 

[Akrange]

I don't know much about RRC's but I do know that in capable hands the BW T-case is a pretty impressive 4x4 system.

I definitely agree! What gets me in trouble around here is all the sand under the large rocks. Once my tires begin to spin, I am a sitting duck. That is why i am thinking lockers.

 

[K2RVR]

Glad you posed the question Shawna! I have been thinking about this for the last 2 days wondering why it would be a requirement as the Borg Viscous unit should provide enough power distribution to make it worthwhile... Can't wait to see the input... It will be a good education for me.

Todd

 

[RonL]

Nothing in Offroad is a "must".

You do not need CDL for lockers, but it helps.
Back you your questions, once a tire is up in the air and spinning the BW tcase is trying to push power to the other axle, but with a locker, it does not matter if one tire is up in the air, it will not spin because it is "locked" with the other side tire.

All of the benefits of a locker depend on you type of driving and terrian.
What type of terrian are you wanting to do?

 

[Alaska Mike]

Scott Brady (our host and publisher of Overland Journal) and I were stationed at Mountain Home back in the early-mid '90s, and spent a lot of time up in the Owyhees and kicking around in the desert, looking for rocks to put a tire on. One of my favorite places I have lived.

Most of the terrain you have there is dirt, sand, and lava rock/granite- typical high plains desert. For the majority of it, you don't need a CDL, but I would want one anyway. Unless you need a locker for rock crawling, I would skip it and do the CDL mod and invest in some good recovery equipment for the odd stuck when the pits flood or winter runs up in the mountains. Recovery equipment (winch, straps...) can be moved from vehicle to vehicle over the years and gets you out of trouble. Sometimes a locker just gets you stuck deeper.

Have fun in Mountain Home.

 

[aslostasyou]

For what it's worth I would do the LT-230 swap on your RRC. I've done this on two of my 95's in the past. CDL does make a good bit of difference.

The main important one in my opinion being that if you blow a rear diff which will most likely happen at some point with lockers you can pull the axle shafts, drop the drive shaft lock it in diff-lock high range and drive home in 2WD front or rear.

Hell, I drove around with front wheel drive for 4 months back in the day when I couldn't afford a new rear diff. Felt weird but I got from point a to point b.

It's pretty straight forward, old box out, new box in and a new front drive shaft. You will have to deal with some wiring if you want the diff-lock light (search DiscoWeb) but take this ONE THING under advisement. While you have the LT-230 on the floor open it up and remove the shift-lock solenoid. I've had one of these fail in the field and it caused a mess. 4 bolts, remove the cap, pull the sensor out, goop it up with right stuff then seal it all together. Viola!

, J

 

[superpowerdave]

Mountain Home terrain is definitely a mixture of everything! You can’t throw a rock in any direction without hitting a dirt road that goes to the middle of nowhere really fast. Since we’ve been here though, we’ve found most of our off-roading consists of lots of rock crawling and very little in the way of desert/scenic runs.

A typical rig on our club runs is a vehicle on 35+ inch tires and locked front and rear. Depending on the group though, a mile long canyon trail may take ten rigs three or four hours to complete.

We know tire size will eventually become the limiting factor for our rigs unless we do an axle swap, but until then we need the traction to get up and over the rocks we encounter, hence the locker question. As far as mechanics go, is there an advantage of having a locker with the LT230 or will benefits be the same regardless of the transfer case?

Personally I’ve been really surprised at the lack of information on this – is that because most folks wheeling an RRC just do the swap because it’s en vogue or is there sound reasoning behind it? Do folks wheeling the Classics not bother with locking up?

I’d rather not spend the money and effort on the transfer case swap if there isn’t a good reason to if I can get improved traction with a locker in the rear so we're searching for all our options!

Thanks for all the replies so far - you're definitely giving us something to chew on as we make our decision.

 

[aslostasyou]

By locking up the center (CDL) your putting 50% of the power to the rear and 50% of the power to the front. All the time. Vs. path of least resistance when you do not have CDL. Wheeling with CDL and lockers will give you ultimate traction and yes, more traction than if you didn't have CDL.

If it were me. I'd do the CDL before I did the locker. Especially with the mileage creeping up on the BW box. They have a tendancy to fail around 120k and what's the point in the lockers if the BW box fails in the field... Start with the bones...then add the meat.

, J

 

[Alaska Mike]

Scott and I used to do a waterfall trail in a dry wash past Bruneau. A series of lava rock ledges in a dry wash that were a lot of fun... that is until they fenced it off. We used to head out that way and explore lots of the dry washes that were off the main highway.

Scott and I also pioneered a trail very near Simplot (in a valley) that had some monster boulders and a few rattlesnakes.

Back beyond the pits there's an old dam in the middle of the desert with some interesting ledges and slabs to play on.

Past Silver City were some fun (if not overly challenging) trails. Winter runs were always a blast.

I would be concerned about locking up the Rover differential- especially in a rock crawling environment. The gears are not that big, and let's be honest- it was not conceived as a rockcrawling rig. Make the vehicle as reliable as possible and then make sure you have the gear to get yourself out of trouble. Building it into a hardcore rig will be an expensive proposition, and you might no like the results. Find a buddy and go out and explore the desert. There are all sorts of trails out there of all levels if you look.

 

[astateofmike]

Ah, the cross posting begins.

I have heard that driver skill and thought will make the BW work fine. I have a LT230. I was stuck between a rock and hard fall and when the LT230 was not locked, I was stuck. Got it to lock , and away I went...

So, I would do a LT230 if I had to/could because it is a stock swap. I have yet to need anything else, but don't crawl heavy either.

Now, the real reason you want the LT230 is that I saw on one of the many parts sites I surf a $350 conversion gear for the LT230. When installed (and if you are putting in the LT, Have superpowerdave break it open and check everything anyways, so that it is rebuilt the first time in) it gives you the options of HI LOCKED, LO LOCKED, HI TWO wheel drive and LOW TWO wheel drive... YES, I said it. There is not a real good reason I need an AWD vehicle as I lock when I go into dirt anyway. The gear makes it so that you have 2wd low and hi, and 4wd locked low and hi....With that conversion (and yes, the extra duckets) how can anyone not want a LT230?

Link: http://www.toddcosuspensions.com/lt230pati2wd.html

Nice seeing you here too, yall.

 

[MuddyMudskipper]

Welcome AKRange!

I have been on many trips with Rangie guys that have the factory BW and open diffs and they have rarely had any problems going anywhere I have with the LT230 and lockers on my Disco. The CDL and lockers just made the difficult areas easier to traverse. Sure there were those places that they couldn't go without a tug here and there, but those spots were few and far between as we often frequent more scenic "normal" trails.

If the decision had to be made between lockers and an LT230 I would definitely opt for the CDL. The majority of my Rangie buddies pine for the LT230 for various reasons and is usually the mechanical modification that tops their list. As others have mentioned, neither the CDL or the lockers are a true necessity but as aslostasyou mentioned, the CDL has definite advantages over the BW (and lockers). Additionally, lockers will put a hefty amount of extra strain on the stock axles so HD axles or a few spares would be in order at a greater cost. I can tell you from experience that when a diff, axle, or viscous goes south with a BW the Rangie goes nowhere under its own power.

 

[AndrewClarke]

I remember going off-road with a buddy in socal once. I had my '96 5spd, Detroit rear, lift, and tyres. He had a stock '95 RRC.

He outdrove me everywhere we went. His LSD & TC may not have been better than my lockers (who knows) but he's a better driver than I am, and it showed.

The thing that sort of sucked was that I was the one who got him into off-roading and he was the newbie off-roader. I guess the fact that he was tracking his Porsche almost every weekend translated better into off-roading than I thought it would

My point is, I guess a lot of people here vote for removing the BW TC and who knows, it's probably a good idea, but I've always been impressed by how versatile they are. Personally I'd do lockers first, if it was a one or the other scenario. Oh yeah, and HD axles.

Regarding the can't-use-2wd-with-BW-TC, I would have thought with a LSD centre differential you could still pull the rear driveshaft and operate in front wheel drive mode, sort of. I guess I'm wrong.

And let me second the removal of the shift lock on the RRC. I have seen too many of those bite the dust on trails. It can be fixed on the trail but it's time consuming to deal with. And you have to have somebody with you who knows what to do

- Andrew.

 

[4Rescue]

Having just gone through the area and seen what a slight rain can do, I'd say that CDL would be advantageous in the greasy slop that occurs down there (love the Area though, I just ran the Owyhee and have done alot of exploring down there) As everyone says though, I don't think the CDL is absolutely nessascarry for a locker install...

Cheers

Dave

 

[Akrange]

I can tell you from experience that when a diff, axle, or viscous goes south with a BW the Rangie goes nowhere under its own power.

Yes, the last thing I need is to leave my rig on the trail until I can get a part to get it moving again. It looks as though I will probably do the CDL swap primarily because I want to do it right the first time. When I get out on the trails with all these guys, I always have a lot of 'proving' to do. Dave can attest, I don't drive like the other females in the club (petal to the metal and out of control) but the minute my truck can't do something that a lot of the others can, I seem to get lumped back in with all the other 'girls'. I hate that!:ar15:

Someone else had mentioned, "do it right or go home" and I don't want to go home. We do a lot of rock crawling here and even though I love the more scenic trails from time to time, I also want to be able to keep up with the big boys on the more rocky terrain. And it isn't even the rocky terrain that gets me, it's the shifty rocks and the sand under the big rocks. The minute my tires roll a rock out of the way and hit the sand, I'm toast, every time. So I guess an LT230 is in my near future.