Liberty dilema

[frumpy]

So, we are buying out the lease on our liberty in a month or so as my wife and I were planning on doing. I can't decide if I want to go ahead with my plans to build it up a bit. My main concern is the IFS (mainly the weakness of it) and lack of aftermarket support (can't find a front bumper I like or even a front receiver to mount my winch on).

I'm starting to think it might be better off as a mall crawler and start looking more into an XJ/ZJ or even another TJ/YJ. If I do build the KJ it would be skids, small lift, 31"-32" mud tires, winch (already have just need to mount it).

 

[J*C*M]

What do you plan to use the truck for?

There are a lot of IFS expo rigs out there, because they are for getting there and hanging out there, not just seeing how much you can get through in order to prove how tough your truck is... I've seen some pretty built Liberty's i'll see if i can find any links...

 

[frumpy]

I knew that question was going to come up. I just moved to a new area and honestly have no idea what the trails are like. I've done, and enjoyed everything from rock crawling on trails where it takes a few hours to do a few km to higher speed fire roads where we would cover 100km in a day.

I want this to be a rig that can safely and comfortably take my wife and pups out alone on some fire roads camping to something that can hang with mildly modified TJ's/YJ's.

I have seen a few really nice KJs but I don't want to drop 10k into this rig when I could have something just as comfortable and more capable for 5k.

 

[Root Moose]

There's a bunch of Jeep guys on the base in Petawawa. Post at ovo.ca and introduce yourself and you'll get hooked up with what is available locally.

 

[phxtoad]

A modified KJ (as you are proposing) is an all around great trail rig. It is not a rock crawler - nor should it be confused with one. About the max you'd want to attempt would be a 3.5 rated trail (out of 5). That will require all the armor and lockers you can get, though. Otherwise it'll run 3.0's all day.

I've wheeled mine hard for the past seven years and I would not fear any 'weakness' of the IFS. You'll wear out components for sure, but the front end has proven to be fairly stout overall. If you lift, definitely get aftermarket upper control arms with replaceable/greaseable ball joints.

True - aftermarket support is limited. However, there are a few sources for outstanding aftermarket parts. Bumpers are probably the hardest to find. You'll likely need to go custom.

Have you been to the LOSTKJS or JEEPKJ forums? Plenty of answers to any questions you may have over there as well. Or ask away here.

Todd

 

[frumpy]

I know I won't be doing any rock crawling with a liberty but still want to be able to challenge myself.

The other thing is all my previous vehicles were solid axles so lifts were straight forwards. I've been reading up on all the different options for IFS on the liberty's and am starting to get a little confused for what direction to go (something that is capable and strong but not going to completely break the bank). The only thing I really know I want with a lift is aftermarket upper control arms.

 

[jeepdreamer]

Limits on Libs...

I've had some, although limited, time running trails along side a couple Libs. And not to bash but I would take an older XJ over the Lib anyday. Whats weird is that it is really kinda hard to peg down what it is about them that makes them less...wheelable? I don't think it has so much to do with the IFS, though I think that was a horrible idea. I don't think it is really a wheelbase issue? My likely semi-intelligent guess is the ground clearance..or lack there of? So much under the Lib seeme to just cry "snag me"! And then you have to start to cover and skidplate everything. Lifting it is a pain. Even a minimal lift will alter the driving a good deal and in order to run a moderate enough tire to help alleviate the ground clearance issues you need more lift...
Does this help? Prob. not. I don't really dislike the Lib. I wouldn't own one since I wheel a bit to hard for it to keep up. If it were me I would look long and hard at the realities of how much rougher than a fire road you will honestly be doing. Seriously look and be honest with yourself. Don't let pride or bravado or your immagination get the better of you. Once you come to an honest parameter of your wheeling grounds, couple it with your style of driving and the end budget to get there.
You may find that selling the Lib and buying a good, clean, low mile XJ or maybe even a Grand Cherk...would put you dollars ahead?

 

[phxtoad]

If you are looking for a rig that is more of a challenge to run, then I think the KJ would be fun for you. Besides you already have it and are somewhat used to it. You mentioned safety: I love XJ's, but they are not nearly as safe as KJ's. Look at pics of ones that have rolled.

Hmmm - there really aren't that many options for a lift... It's either coil spacers or new longer coils/struts. Or - you spend $$ and do an SFA swap.

I ran the 2 1/2" Daystar spacers with Rancho struts for 5 years. It's the 'basic' lift and probably the cheapest. I upgraded to the 2 1/2" Frankenlift which is probably the 'premium' lift. Better ride quality - but no more lift in my case. I started running 265/75's (about a 32), but they rubbed and stuffed too much for my liking - plus I could feel there extra weight on the pedal. I went down to 245/75's (about a 31) and like it much better.

I'd get skids first and take it out and see what it can do. If your tires are good and you know what you are doing you'll have fun. Our LOST group here in AZ has taken stockers out every year and most are amazed what their rigs can do. Sure they drag their belly's a bit and need spotting. Once they have the big grin on their faces I usually tell them that even a small lift will clear those same spots they rubbed on.

I'd recommend doing a 2 1/2" coil spacer lift if you want to save $$$. There are taller lifts (3" and 4") out there now, but the wheel wells are only so big, and you'll tax the rest of the IFS components more (IMO). The front D30A can't push much more than a 32 without going prang anyway.

Next I'd get Al's Upper arms (or another manufacturer). This will fix any upper ball joint woes that your lift will start to cause.

Then I'd get rock rails because you'll start pushing it more.

With this level of lift, protection, and rear locker you'll go most places short of actual rock crawling.

My dos centavos

TL

 

[frumpy]

thanks for the info/advice. I think I am going to plan on keeping it. Buy out from the lease is in a month and I'm hoping to have that paid off in a year and then plan on putting 4-5k into it (lift, tires/rims, mount my winch somehow, rock sliders, and armour) I already have my camping/wheeling/recovery gear. However, after I buy it out I will eventually be getting another vehicle and leave the liberty for the weekends (and getting to work in snow storms).

 

[2500Adventures]

Phxtoad forgot to mention the Detours winch adapter plate that he has on his KJ, that would come in handy to mount that winch you mentioned you have on the front end of the KJ.

Get a locker for the rear Chrysler 8.25 Corporate and/or regear down to the 4.10s if you like too. (I have 4.10s for the front D30a available if your interested - shameless plug )

Also I'm not sure what model year you have, but ARB and Trail Ready (maybe?) make bumpers for the KJ. Also for sliders, outside the aftermarket, I'd look for a local shop that is good at fabrication and get some built up. The Mopar ones will be good for some stuff but not all of it...

Otherwise Phxtoad is right on the money!

 

[frumpy]

Phxtoad forgot to mention the Detours winch adapter plate that he has on his KJ, that would come in handy to mount that winch you mentioned you have on the front end of the KJ.

Get a locker for the rear Chrysler 8.25 Corporate and/or regear down to the 4.10s if you like too. (I have 4.10s for the front D30a available if your interested - shameless plug )

Also I'm not sure what model year you have, but ARB and Trail Ready (maybe?) make bumpers for the KJ. Also for sliders, outside the aftermarket, I'd look for a local shop that is good at fabrication and get some built up. The Mopar ones will be good for some stuff but not all of it...

Otherwise Phxtoad is right on the money!

I've looked into the detours one before, seems like an expensive option to still have a plastic front bumper ($355 plus shipping to Canada, duties and brokerage fee's and then getting someone to install it). I'm not sure if I will need to regear as I will probably only be going to 31s.

As for the arb and trail ready bumper they seem huge, bulky and heavy. Add a winch and your definatly going to need some work to make it sit level.

 

[njjeepthing]

My buddys Liberty for some ideas!

He's running an OME/JeepingbyAL lift, 245's on Moabs, and some Skid Row skids, plus an ARB front and Rock Lizard rear bumper. It's also locked in the rear with an ARB air locker.

 

[x32792]

A modified KJ (as you are proposing) is an all around great trail rig. It is not a rock crawler - nor should it be confused with one. About the max you'd want to attempt would be a 3.5 rated trail (out of 5). That will require all the armor and lockers you can get, though. Otherwise it'll run 3.0's all day.

I've wheeled mine hard for the past seven years and I would not fear any 'weakness' of the IFS. You'll wear out components for sure, but the front end has proven to be fairly stout overall. If you lift, definitely get aftermarket upper control arms with replaceable/greaseable ball joints.

True - aftermarket support is limited. However, there are a few sources for outstanding aftermarket parts. Bumpers are probably the hardest to find. You'll likely need to go custom.

Have you been to the LOSTKJS or JEEPKJ forums? Plenty of answers to any questions you may have over there as well. Or ask away here.

Todd

You make an interesting point. Do you really need a rig that will do a 5.0 trail?

 

[ihatemybike]

Lifting it is a pain. Even a minimal lift will alter the driving a good deal and in order to run a moderate enough tire to help alleviate the ground clearance issues you need more lift...?

As someone that has had a hand in lifting several Libbys, lifting them is easy. It's a matter of installing new shock assemblies in the front, springs and longer shocks in the rear and longer bump stops all around. Stay away from any lift that uses spacers with the stock shocks and springs, these will quickly wear out the stock suspension pieces when taken on the trails. Upper A-arm are not required, but aftermarket ones make alignments easier and have geaseable/replaceable ball joints.

When lifted properly driving is altered, they drive and handle much better! The stock suspension is set up soft for the moms going to the mall. With quality lift parts the ride is much more confidence inspiring. Even with the rear sway bar removed corners and curves feel so much better.

With a good lift 265/75R16 tires (roughly 10.5 x 32) are able to fit with minimal rubbing, though that can be alleviated by trimming part of the wheel well liner and pounding down the pinch weld.

My wife's Liberty is currently sitting with 3.5/4 inches of lift which is about the max the stock CVs will take before binding becomes an issue and is on 245/75R16 tires. Her Jeep is a regular at the Badlands Off-road Park, has seen time at The Cliffs Insane Terrain, Bundy Hill, and has taken us on extended adventures to Coal Creek/Windrock ORV Area, SMORR, Ouray, CO and Moab, UT. We leave for MT on the 27th of this month and will be on two track as much as possible.

These Jeeps are much more capable than most give them credit for, but that happens with every new Jeep.

 

[ihatemybike]

Evidence of our last Jeep wrench fest.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=609412#p609412

That's me with the Green "Express Yourself" shirt. I most likely have the most lifted Liberty suspension experience in the Chicagoland area, my wife coming in a close second.

My wife's CarDomain for her Jeep
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3053365