Little Upset with Nth Degree…

[AlaskanFlightMedic]

Let me preface this by saying I absolutely love my lift kit, just a little bothered by a recent revelation. More then a year back and after more then a year of research I bought a 4 ½ inch Long Arm Lift kit from Nth degree for my ’06 Rubicon LJ.

The install was significant and thankfully the guys at Underground Performance did not charge me for their own learning curve. Apparently the directions were such that multiple calls to Nth Degree were made. Well after much frustration on their part resulted in a phenomenal lift; it quite literally drives better now that it is lifted then when it id stock. Nth Degree did it right and did it good.

My source of frustration, well I always noted it was a little flat in the rear and tended to sag when even lightly loaded. After installing an ARB rear bumper and swing out tire carrier and the Gen Right 31 ½ gallon tank it has become more noticeable.

Nic at Underground noticed this from the beginning and we have been discussing options, including switching to OME rear springs but he decided to call someone at AEV (They took over Nth Degree for those that don’t know) before we made a decision.. Nic was told that they had addressed this issue and we could order springs to over come the load issue. A few days later and after speaking with me he went to order the springs only to speak to someone else and to be told there are no different springs, only the same that come in the kit, and the frustration builds. Back to OME option?

More phone calls and waiting to get back to the person that made the original assertion of improved springs and then…wait for it…wait for it… Apparently when they originally made the LJ Kit they used TJ Rear Springs. They new kits have the updated springs designed and tuned for the LJ and heavier loads. But I have to BUY the new springs and pay for the install.

As I said love the kit just a little frustrated with the little things.

 

[toyrunner95]

These are the things that come with A.switching manufacturers and B. why nth degree may have gone out of buisness (not saying its a bad company, just a little too complicated and maybe a little under designed.

Anyway. Dave Harrington (i think thats his name) is the owner of AEV. They do their research and have some well designed stuff. If the springs that AEV has are better, then i woud try and go for it. Just try and see if you can get them to just send them to you or something. That doesnt seem right that you cant do the install youself.

 

[TCM]

My brother has an LJ that was fully kitted by AEV. They did a fantastic job and I think very highly of the company. It is fortunate that AEV purchased Nth, is providing service support for the installed client base and invested the time to make springs specific to the LJ platform. Without their investment you would be looking for springs from another manufacturer which in the end would not likely work as well as the AEV springs. Yes OME makes good stuff, I run their LJ springs on my LJ, but they only provide 2" of lift. Yes they also make a 4" lift spring but these are specifically for the TJ so would probably sag under load just the same as the ones you have currently.

 

[madizell]

Why not ask AEV where they buy their springs, and get them from their source, since they intend to charge you for what is essentially an inherited problem (called passing the problem along to the customer). AEV outsources parts, so find out where they get theirs, and make your decision after you know who they are now using.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Why not ask AEV where they buy their springs, and get them from their source, since they intend to charge you for what is essentially an inherited problem (called passing the problem along to the customer). AEV outsources parts, so find out where they get theirs, and make your decision after you know who they are now using.

And don't be surprised when they say "we can't tell you that". Information like that is proprietary. Its not like they are a reseller of common springs, AEV is likely spec'ing their own spring directly to the manufacture, they might even be making them themselves, I kind've doubt it though. As for AEV outsourcing parts, sure to their parent company

 

[ntsqd]

Perhaps, though, they can or will tell you the rate of the existing spring and the rate of the suggested replacement spring. They may or may not being willing to divulge that info, but it's far more likely that you'd be told that than where they buy their springs from.

Once you have the spring rates you can look around to see what other springs match the suggested rate.

 

[4Rescue]

IF the OME springs fit, I'd asy go with them... It seems as though AEV/Nth Gegree had a known issue and did not adress it with your lift kit. A taller/stiffer spring would cure your load woes and OME is one of the best there is.

Cheers

Dave

 

[madizell]

Taller/stiffer is not in itself an answer. The needed load rating of a spring can be determined easily if you know the weight of your vehicle, loaded, at all four corners. Or, you can get close if you know the total weight and the weight split (ratio) front to back. Then each axle load can be divided by two. Taking the total weight of the vehicle and dividing by four only works of your weight split is 50/50.

OME outsources it springs, just as AEV does. Because these items are outsourced, the control of quality is not in the hands of the guy you buy them from. OME and AEV will have their own design demands, and knowing what those are will help you, but telling you what they are won't help them.

I suggest you simply figure it out for yourself, and buy springs from a quality source, and skip the middle guys.

 

[JJonesee]

Agreed.

Once the rate is determined, you can order from any spring manufacture.

Progressive rate springs are a little more complicated, but still not rocket science.

Just curious... Why cant you add spring spacers or air bags to the rear? Air lift makes a quality bag that will install on the inside of the rear coil to help manage the extra weight.

 

[madizell]

Adding spacers would not adjust for load bearing requirements - it would only lift up the rear by the height of the spacer. Sounds as if the springs in question are not strong enough to do the job, so spacing them would not solve the problem.

Air bags work well on Jeeps when done correctly. I have not seen much done in the US with Jeeps and air bags, so there is not such a wide variety of choices or information sources on using them. If you just want to use air bags as over-rides for occasional added weight, that's something else. A true air spring suspension is technical and pricey.

 

[RedRocker]

Don't you love it when they let you R&D their products.

 

[JJonesee]

I put Air-rides bags inside my rear coils on a 4" lifted TJ. I didnt like how soft the superlift coils were, and when I towed my AL boat it would put the headlights in the faces of oncoming traffic.

They worked out nice. Unloaded with no pressure it acted like normal, but loaded up with about 10psi in the bag - it handled fine. I did manage to remove one air line on the bottom of a bag in a full flex situation, but it was an easy fix.

The bag I used was from a 70's Monte Carlo or somethign. I called Airlift and gave them dimensions of the 4" lift spring, and they gave me the coresponding part number.

It was a few years back - but I think I spent $50?

http://www.airliftcompany.com/al1000.html

Now I agree its not a true solution for the issue. But in 1998 I didnt have many 4" lift TJ coil choices.

 

[ntsqd]

I think that it is a reasonable solution. The only worry that I have is that some of those air springs intended to go inside of the existing coil spring can be rather thin. They don't like abrasion or heat too much.

 

[KF6PLH]

I have had my Nth 6" LA kit for 2 years now on my SWB 03 Rubicon. I love it!

I would call AEV and ask to talk with Jim Frenz, he was the Nth Degree engineer and founder. I believe he works for AEV now. I have spoken with Jim twice and was very helpful when I had some minor issues which were problems with the shop that installed the kit.

Another person I would call is Quinn Thomas at All J Products in Big Bear, CA. He is the Nth Degree guru. http://www.boulderbars.com/

Another resource is Nth degree Yahoo user group http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/NthDegreeUsers/

 

[KF6PLH]

Oh, and I forgot to mention, if you are looking at airbags you might consider the Airock System. Yes, it is expensive but well worth it.

http://www.offroadonly.com/products/suspension/airock/