Littleseats - any experience

[Maddmatt]

Anybody have any experience with these:
http://www.littleseats.com/toyota_4runner.htm

Mods - feel free to move if necessary, this seemed like the place as this is the kind of thing I like to talk about around the fire.

Here's the dilemma - With two kids we need a 3rd row anywhere from 2 - 4 times per month. It's not a huge problem, but if you've been in that position and there's 5 Brownies and only three seats..... It's like that old math problem with the boat crossing the river and how many trips does it take, etc...

Both of our cars are well aged, but both are well maintained and of breeds that tend to go a long way. (Subaru Outback with just under 100k and 4Runner with 203k). Also, primary point - both are paid for. I haven't had a car payment in five years.

So we've been looking at new vehicles with third rows - my wife has made it pretty clear that she is not driving a mini-van, and while the convenience would be nice I can't say that I disagree.

But do I need the third row often enough to take on car payments? I don't think I do.

Also, there' not really a newish (2 -3 years old) SUV on the market that I'm all that wild about. If it was 3 years from now I'd be looking at 2010 4runner, but by then my kids probably won't want to be seen with me, so this problem will have passed.

So I found these on line. They look like a good solution for the couple of times per month when we need to put 2 or 3 extra kids in the car.

Safety wise I'm not too concerned, I'm pretty sure the 3rd gen 4runner was available with a 3rd row in other markets, and on other forums I've read about a guy who pieced together the factory jump seats from the dealer, but he was $2k in by the time he was done.

So if anybody here has used these, or other, after market 3rd row seats, I'd love some feedback. Even of the JCWhitney variet, I notice they have some too, but they don't look quite this nice.
Thanks
-Matt

 

[Superu]

but if you've been in that position and there's 5 Brownies and only three seats

I call that the perfect reason not to schlep other people's kids around! :ylsmoke:

That said, I'm sure you'll hear plenty of feedback from both sides on this issue. Here are a few for the downside.

• Potential risk of injury using a 3rd seat in vehicle not designed for it.
• Potential liability if someone's child is injured while riding in this non-standard seat.
• PITA of having to unbolt something you only need a couple of times a month.

They look like a decent product, though I'd be interested to know about the level of automotive engineering experience the designer/builder of these seats has/had.

 

[JeepN95YJ]

Here are a few for the downside.

• Potential risk of injury using a 3rd seat in vehicle not designed for it.
• Potential liability if someone's child is injured while riding in this non-standard seat.
• PITA of having to unbolt something you only need a couple of times a month.

Seriously sad it comes down to these types of worries. I remember having a blast riding in the back of the truck as kids. Also riding in the rear facing seat of the family station wagon.

One of the best memories, though, was piling 9 little leaguers into the coach's v8-powered flat-fender to run up the Whippy Dip after the game. I can remember feeling like he was pulling 'wheelies'.

Another friend posted a "remember when" message on facebook just yesterday. In Junior High wood-shop class we made cross-bows from a kit. We took them home fully assembled on the school-bus along with the bolts (both razer-tipped hunting and simple pointed target).

Doesn't seem that long ago, but I'm pretty sure the Junior High doesn't make crossbows today.

Jerry (graduated high-school in 1986)

 

[BKCowGod]

Another friend posted a "remember when" message on facebook just yesterday. In Junior High wood-shop class we made cross-bows from a kit. We took them home fully assembled on the school-bus along with the bolts (both razer-tipped hunting and simple pointed target).

Doesn't seem that long ago, but I'm pretty sure the Junior High doesn't make crossbows today.

Jerry (graduated high-school in 1986)

Yah, these days the kids just carry Glocks

 

[Esmi]

We had good luck with "Little Passenger Seats" in our aged Tahoe.

Our big kid outgrew the seat by about 11-years-old, so unless you are planning on keeping yours small . . .

We like schlepping other people's kids around. We like having our kids schlepped. The Sprinter in my sig line has seatbelts for nine, and we dig having all nine in use simultaenously.

EDIT: Oh yeah, ours was such a pain to unhook that we left it in all the time. We found that it didn't take that much space that we were going to use for anything else.

 

[BIGdaddy]

we have a van. bought it certified pre-owned. cost 10,500...payment is around 200.00.

We LOVE it.

Vans are cool. I'd encourage you to rent one for a week. That did it for us. We needed a car and someone loaned us a Town and country. We bought our Grand caravan(same exact car) a week later. lol.

We have a family of 5, though and are planning on another kid. For us its more about the destination than the vehicle...

my .03 cents.

 

[neverestablished]

Great idea, but the liability is a huge concern. Curious to what you find anyways. Maybe put a rear facing back seat from something along with original mounts. My grand wagoneers backseat was only held in with 2 slide in mounts and gravity.
I dont know if it would be possible or not, but a front bench seat out of a tacoma might fit to solve your problem?

Vans can be had for dirt cheap since no one seem to like them, as a 3rd vechicle. There are more sporty alternatives as well: Kia rondo has decent price for a newer vehicle, Mazda5, rav4 came with 3rd row for one year 05 or 06 i think, and all the other larger suvs.

BIGdaddy how are you gonna fit everything in the cherokee, your already packed to the gills.

 

[Maddmatt]

Thanks everybody - good input.

I've gone down the cheap 3rd vehicle route before - ended up being too much maintenance for too little reward.
Maybe I should be more worried about the liability, but I guess I'm not that concerned. I'll keep researching and will post up if I end up trying it.

 

[Every Miles A Memory]

Funny that you said "My wife stated she wouldnt drive a minivan"

My wife said the same thing till I found a Grand Caravan fully loaded for $2500. I bought it just to use as a third vehicle because Cindy didnt want to drive her 86 CJ-7 in the winter without power brakes or power steering and ended up loving the minivan!

Check out Craigslist or EBay Mmotors. I see them on there all the time for a few grand. You could buy the thing cash for that price.

They ride great, haul a ton of crap around and we ended up using it for extended camping trips. Carried two kayaks on the roof, back seat folded down into a bed, and it could carry all our gear and still be comfortable

 

[Superu]

X2 on the van! :ylsmoke:

Vans are very useful. When we had our Town & Country there were many times when I took the seats out and slid 4x8 sheets of plywood in.

Also had 7 passenger seating although some have 8 if you don't have second row Captain's Chairs. Was great for our family of 5 until the tranny went at the same time we added a big dog to the family!

Now it's Suburban time. Tons of room for the 5 of us plus dog and seating for 8 when we need it and still have room in the back for the dog! :smiley_drive:

 

[Maddmatt]

Yeah, I know about the vans. I've rented them several times and used one as a rep vehicle for a couple years. AWD Ford (Aerostar?). Thing was unstoppable.

My wife's reservations about the van are only about 50% "coolness" - the rest is visibility. She's all of 5'2" and the mini vans she's driven have all made it very difficult for her to see the corners. That's another thing driving me towards keeping the 4runner, relatively straight sides and higher seating position makes it easy to see what's going on. Plus she has a confidence level in the vehicle, we've driven it all over the country and she's driven it herself in some seriously bad weather.

If it wasn't for the kids and dogs she'd love to have her '87 Golf back, that vehicle fit her perfectly. Not me so much, I spent way to much time rescuing her when she had that car, but that's the VW way.

If money was no object I'd be all over a new Flex - nice straight sides, great options, etc....

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I can't even begin to imagine how those seats are legal in the US, or even on the market. I would't touch them with a 10 foot pole if I lived down there. Not that I really think they're dangerous, but that's just how things are in the US. Go ahead, call your insurance company and ask.

Even fitting factory option jump seats not fitted in the factory has liability issues. Nobody wants to take responsibility for how they're installed.

I've heard the anti-minivan thing so many times and don't get it. They make so much sense. The whole SUV/Crossover thing for family vehicles is insane.

On the visibility thing. My wife is 5'4", and she loves our Montana van.

We only have 1 kid, but the minivan became a requirement with our second on the way, and trying to fit two baby seats in the car. I can't even get a rear facing infant carrier in my Land Rover.

 

[BIGdaddy]

Great idea, but the liability is a huge concern. Curious to what you find anyways. Maybe put a rear facing back seat from something along with original mounts. My grand wagoneers backseat was only held in with 2 slide in mounts and gravity.
I dont know if it would be possible or not, but a front bench seat out of a tacoma might fit to solve your problem?

Vans can be had for dirt cheap since no one seem to like them, as a 3rd vechicle. There are more sporty alternatives as well: Kia rondo has decent price for a newer vehicle, Mazda5, rav4 came with 3rd row for one year 05 or 06 i think, and all the other larger suvs.

BIGdaddy how are you gonna fit everything in the cherokee, your already packed to the gills.

that is a great question. :snorkel:

my jeep isn't our trip car right now. Just my DD, and fun vehicle. I fit three in the back very well, and could fit our oldest in a booster, If I had to, in the front if another kid comes along (for daycare pickup duties w/o my wife). But yeah, it becomes a bit of a useless vehicle if I have 4 kids and want to go on a family trip...lol.

I might go T.low's route and go with an AWD van. not sure. Might pickup an FJ80 or an FJ100, eventually, too. All have their pro's and con's.

3 kids, 1 wife, a roof rack, and creative packing is going to do us fine for right now, though. We aren't able to afford a 2nd car payment, so most importantly, I own my rig outright.

 

[matt s]

Actually I think those seats look very legitimate and one heck of a solution. As to all those who instantly figured they could not be safe. It appears that they have done some pretty good testing. I would be nice to see some 3rd party data, but they do claim 14,000 seats sold and no reported failures in crashes or otherwise.

From the site.

Each car third row seat from us designed and stress tested to meet safety standards established by the Department of Transportation, Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. The following tests of the car third row seat frame, seat mounting platform, Type 1 and Type 2 seat belt assemblies and anchorage systems have been completed.

All vehicle third row seating, whether it is an Explorer third row seat or a Honda CR-V 3rd row seat meet the following Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards:

Section 571.207 subsections S4.2(a) and (b). Tests the seat anchorage system and requires "20 times the weight of the seat applied in a forward (rearward) longitudinal direction."

Section 571.207 subsection S4.2(d). Tests the rear upper seat frame cross-member…in a rearward longitudinal direction for forward facing seats and a forward longitudinal direction for rearward-facing seats."

Section 571.209 subsection S4.3(c)(2). Tests the single anchorage point, "Other attachment hardware designed to receive the ends of two seat belt assemblies shall withstand a tensile force of at least 6,000 pounds… without fracture of any section when tested by procedure in S5.2(c)(2)."

Section 571.210 subsection S4.4.2. Tests seat belt assembly anchorage to insure their proper location for effective occupant restraint, "Except for side-facing seats, the anchorage for a Type 1 seat belt assembly or the pelvic portion of a Type 2 seat belt assembly shall withstand a 5,000 pound force when tested in accordance with S5.1."

Section 571.210 subsection S5.2. Tests Type 2 seat belt anchorage, specifies in part "…apply forces of 3,000 pounds in the direction in which the seat faces simultaneously to pelvic and upper torso body blocks…and maintain them for 10 seconds."

 

[SilverBullet]

Personally, we are with you on the van. My wife and I both are not minni van people. Full size or conversions, sure, but not minis.

As for vehicle, we found a used Lincoln Navigator for a steal. I won't tell you how much, but lets just say a steal. Just keep looking, a vehicle you want will come around if you are patient.