Looking for ideas for building a vehicle for winter arctic travel.

[Jay61]

I am in the early - middle phase of planning a build for winter travel in the Arctic. I am going to use a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon for my vehicle and the Alu-Cab Canopy Camper for my living space. I plan on having a high output alternator for creating stored energy while the vehicle is running and creating a stand alone, basically third power grid, using stored electricity to run a block heater, battery heaters and other components in the truck operational when the truck is shut down. I am not an electrical whiz so I do not know if this is practical or not. My main concern with regards to power is since it will be winter at high latitudes solar energy will not be available, hence the high output alternator for a charging source to keep my vehicle power grids topped off when the vehicle is running. So I guess my question would be how much stored energy would I need to run all the components of a shut down vehicle for maybe 48 hours or so? I am also toying with heating ideas for the camper when not in use to run electrical heaters for the water, lithium batteries, water lines and ambient air temperature in the camper for when we are in the vehicle as opposed to using the camper. Is it practical to plan on using a high output alternator as a source for creating stored energy and running heating elements in the camper without doing damage to the trucks electrical system? Once again, I am not a electrical whiz and really don't know if my ideas are nothing more than pissing in the wind because I have lived in the deep south my whole life I know little about winterizing vehicles for extreme cold and any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Metcalf]

It depends how cold we are talking, any battery is going to take a huge hit in performance at low temps.

Most of the REALLY cold arctic type environments either don't shut the vehicles off at all, plug them in, and/or pull them inside a heated building.

Gary and Monica Wescot wrote about this a lot when they crossed Russia with one of the Turtle expedition pickups.

 

[carleton]

I don't have many facts for you (not an electrical whiz either), but I do have a lot of winter in Alaska experience, so some thoughts.

1) I would imagine that it would take a lot of storage capacity to power heat pads (which tend to be power-hogs) for 48 hours. Probably more battery than is practical.

2) Espar heaters connected to the fuel tank are wonderful. We did a 3 day/2night trip to Tolovana Hot Springs in a Ford Transit, and we left the Espar running for 48 hours straight set to 50 degrees, so that we wouldn't have to winterize our water system. We've done that a few times, and when you have confidence in the Espar and a good install (and loads of insulation), it is totally doable. Temps were in the single digits (F) for most of that trip, and our house batteries/starter batteries/ water system are all contained in the van.....go great.

3)A 3-to-1 or 4-to-1 is common in Fairbanks. Trickle charger, Block heater, oil pan heater, and even transmission heater, all connected to a single power block for plugging in. That being said those pull a lot of watts and are hard to do on 12V.

4) For some overnight trips to Denali in winter we would bring a Honda generator. We would keep the generator warm in the van (Espar), then at 6am I'd crawl out & hook it up to the 3-to-1 and let it run for a few hours so that we wouldn't have to cold start the engine.

5) Cold starting (zero F and lower) is not great for your vehicle, but if it is sporadic I also don't think it's a big deal. Be realistic about what you are likely to do. If you are doing a big trip up North and are going to be able to plug in to the grid (hotels, etc) for 90% of it, then I would setup a 4:1 and call it good. Most people are not realistically walking away from their vehicles during super cold temps for very long time periods. If you are staying somewhere (hotel, lodge), they will have plug ins. Not sure how much of a dirtbag you are, but camping out (esp if you are talking a canopy camper) when it is 0 F or below is not fun, so paying for a hotel and plugging in is worth the $$ much of the time.

6) I'm assuming that your jeep is gas....but I'll leave here at the bottom that the above 5 recommendations don't apply to diesel...although I also drove diesel pickups around Ft McMurray, AB doing oil work (-20F to occasional -40). Large diesel rigs would run continuously. We would shut our pickups off at night & plug them in....course they were leased vehicles so I don't think my boss was worried about the long term affects of cold starting them.

 

[2.ooohhh]

As a fellow southerner I'll give you a key piece of advise. It's VERY hard to properly prep a vehicle locally for sub 0 temps at home. most extension cords sold here won't uncoil in those temps, most stores don't carry winter washer solvent. Local stores don't carry or have installation knowledge of block heaters, battery warming mats. Fully specked for sub zero travel my rover actually readily overheats in TN summer heat. This causes an annual pre and post trip change of diffs, engine oil, and coolant. I installed a noco charger inlet plug on a fender with 3 way under the hood which powers my on board battery charger, heat mat and block warmer while parked. I use a thermocube for the heaters it turns them off if the temp is over 40F so I can plug in at home to charge the battery alone.

First trip up I had a magnetic oil pan heater I use on my tractor that I planned to move to my trans/transfer case once I got the truck started. After one week of laying on the frozen ground trying to move the heater I bought the block heater. A few small electric heaters spread around is better than one large one.

You might plan a shakedown/planning trip up to the Northern US or Southern Ontario mid winter as several things you will want for travel up there become readily available at parts stores and dealerships the further north you go. Silly stuff you wouldn't think about like a good extendable snow brush/ice scraper to clear your roof for example are essentially unobtanium in the south but readily available at truck stops as you get north into mid Ohio or so.

 

[Wilbah]

I think the Gladiator would be limited to carry enough batteries for 48 hours of power in those Temps (and limited solar replenishment ability in winter). (ETA- the Rubicon has only 1200 lbs of payload v the Willy's which has 1,700. And that's with the gas engine. I suspect it drops even more with the diesel. So I think cargo capacity is a serious detriment to battery power for an extended time period given the other items you will likely need for cold weather).

I think an Espar or similar as Carlton mentioned above makes sense but you will want to be sure you've calculated how much fuel you will need. The Alu-cab will lose a lot of heat I suspect. Take a look at what the Expedition Overland folks did, they added a similar heater for one of their rigs.

Also while this is not what you are referring to as it's a separate trailer (and isn't cheap) this is a company that makes ice fishing shacks and now has a trailer that can be used to -40F- ExploreRV X22. You might find some ideas here to put in place.

 

[billiebob]

Never shut it off. That is the standard in the arctic leave it running 24/7.

The last thing you want is a dead battery in the morning. Battery isolators can fail. There is no way you will have enough battery to run block heater, battery blankets, fridge, microwave??

Re the camper, I'd not do a pickup/camper, do a motorhome/ambulance conversion. And keep the House/Jeep power sources isolated. Use a genset for the house. Use the alternator strictly for the Jeep.

Re water, pressure systems etc.... keep EVERYTHING INSIDE. Take off the cabinet doors below the sink etc. Run all lines in the open. Keep water and sewer inside the camper too.

But number one, never shut the Jeep off unless you are plugged into municipal power source.

And know how much yer rig weighs.


This is not fun...

 

[billiebob]

Alu-Cab Canopy Camper

A tent with a popup roof in the Arctic.... with a heater.....

Heat generates moisture, your breath generates moisture, arctic temperatures freeze moisture. At Arctic temperatures expect ice to form inside the tent, expect the hinge on the popup to freeze. If you have never travelled in Arctic temperatures of -40, -50, -60.... plan on several nights in hotels.

The nearest tree or rock to anchor a winch will likely be miles away. Leave the winch at home. Pack chains instead.

 

[billiebob]

Best to travel in the spring when the dogs are running.... If you can, find the Northern Festivals and join the fun. Sled dogs are the best athletes in the world.

 

[Trail Talk]

Espar heaters connected to the fuel tank are wonderful.

Cold starting (zero F and lower) is not great for your vehicle,

Great comments! We've found hydronic heating is our answer to both situations. Our gas-fired heater draws from the main fuel tank and is plumbed into cabin and truck coolant circuits. A typical winter trip would see us depart with the engine connected to the cabin circuit to warm the interior for our arrival. Once parked, assuming no shore power, I'll disconnect from the engine circuit and start the cabin heater. Next morning, I'll reconnect the engine circuit to pre-heat the truck before departure. Before leaving, I'll shut down the heater and again use the truck engine for cabin heating while on the move.

What should also be a consideration for extreme cold-weather camping, RTT or hardside, is condensation which will form ice inside your habitat unless you keep plenty of fresh air circulation especially when sleeping and cooking. Can't be avoided unfortunately.

 

[Christian P.]

Alucab made of metal?

I would start by thinking about insulation.

But honestly that's not the best option.

 

[billiebob]

One thing we learned our first winter in Yellowknife, modern EFI does not understand 40 below. Left unplugged EFI engines flood at 40 below and colder. The guys with the 4 stroke EFI snowmobiles all had to plug in every morning. With a 2 stroke & carb, choke, prime, crank and they start everytime even at 70 below.

I sold my Four Runner and bought a YJ with carb. Unplugged I lifted the air cleaner, dumped in some raw gas, turned the key while pumping the gas pedal.... it started everytime.

If you flood an EFI engine the gas drains into the oil pan. Where a carburated engine pumps gas a 7-10psi, EFIs pump gas at 80psi plus. Everytime you flood an EFI engine you need an oil change.

Just leave it running 24/7.

 

[billiebob]

ps, everything is exponentially expensive in the Arctic. 20 years ago shops rate was $70/HR... 10 years ago $100/HR. Towing.... the rates are double anywhere south of sixty and you will never need a tow close to anything.

Good to know you are driving a Jeep, the big three have pretty good support up North. Toyota and Subaru have dealerships, parts, service too but anything else you might need parts flown in. You definitely do not want anything German. Zero support and no one has the patience to deal with Mercedes, VW, Audi.

Jeeps are pretty common north of sixty.

Do all the preventative maintenance before leaving Alberta or BC.

 

[gmtech]

anything come of this? did you make it up north?

 

[1stDeuce]

Just tossing this out on an otherwise dead thread, many remote starter setups have the ability to start the car every so often, or based on cabin temp... Might be a way to not necessarily leave it running all the time, but rather keep it just warm enough to not be a problem. IMO, if frequent temps below -40F are going to be common where you are going, then best practice would be not not shut it down for long periods or to get a diesel fired heater plumbed into the cooling system.

Trying to run any sort of electric heater on batteries at extremely low temps is a total lost cause. This because battery performance falls right off in the cold, and because you would need a truck bed full of batteries to run a block heater for 48 hours. If you have to shut down for long periods, you'd be better off getting a little generator and plugging in block, oil pan, and battery heaters a couple hours before you are going to start it. Of course you may find that the generator doesn't want to start at -70F either, so it would need to come inside where it is warm first... We did this with my buddy's Excursion years ago when snowmobiling in Wyoming... Bring the generator in for the night, fire it up on the porch the next morning, drag it (running) down to where the trucks were parked, plug in the Excursion, go back to the house. Come down a couple hours later and it would start. This with temps close to -30F at night.

My experience with Fuel Injection has been similar to Billybob's, but it was back in the late '90's... At -40F, that only truck at our house that would start was my old carbureted Chevy. All the other cars were EFI and they did not start that morning. Temp came up to -10F and they all managed to come alive... I would hope that things have improved some, but I doubt it, as cold starting a vehicle below about -20F is pretty rare, and below -40F isn't even a design concern because it is so unlikely, and so hard on the engine and other parts...