Major coolent PM....the works w/pics

[Brian894x4]

This is on a 1995 FZJ80. Pics are coming, but not up yet.

What started out as just intending to replace the PHH and maybe a few heater hoses, looks like I'm going to end up with a entire brand new cooling system before I'm done.

My main question here is that now that I'm completely torn into the engine and got everything removed to replace the fan clutch and alternator (for a new 150 amp Sequoia unit) and a bunch of other stuff, I decided to check my water pump. At about 96K miles, I didn't think there'd be a problem, but this is what I found.

There is definately a slight drag and it's somewhat of a jerky drag when I turn the pump. Also, it makes a constant noise, when turning either direction that sounds like a door creaking. I have no in and out movement and essentially no side to side movement. I mean can just barely feel a very, very slight movement if I push on it, but I think this is normal. There's no weeping that I can see.

Based on this, I'm pretty sure the pump is bad, but I want to get some opinions before I order and make sure this isn't perfectly normal somehow. Even if the pump is only starting to go bad, I'd figure now is a good time to replace since everything is apart and it's right there easy to R & R.

The rest of the project may entail replacing the radiator or at least yanking mine out and getting it rodded and inspected. When I pulled the alternator out it slipped and banged right into the fins, so I'm not sure if I just put a pin hole or two in it.

I'll be replacing the thermostat, the clutch with a blue clutch unit and all the hoses, including all the heater hoses and PHH. I'm debating by-passing the rear heater, which I can easily do and simpify an otherwise way overcomplicated and vunerable heating system. I've only used the rear heater once and can definately live without it.

I inspected my rear lines and they look fine, thanks my area's lack of rust conditions, but the heat from the exhaust has killed off much of the paint on the metal lines and I can definately see how these lines are so rust prone. But there's rubber lines that are just too vunerable to me and too many potential failure points for something that is as rarely used as a rear heater.

More later....

 

[LexusAllTerrain]

Water pumps should go 150k plus if your cooling system has been take care, as for the squiqing noise from turn to turn , it sounds to me like the power steering pump is low on fluid or need replacement, do you have any small leaks?

Just a thought if I understood your question correctly.

There is definately a slight drag and it's somewhat of a jerky drag when I turn the pump. Also, it makes a constant noise, when turning either direction that sounds like a door creaking. I have no in and out movement and essentially no side to side movement. I mean can just barely feel a very, very slight movement if I push on it, but I think this is normal. There's no weeping that I can see.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Did you mod your Blue fan clutch for maximum cooling before you installed it?

 

[DaveInDenver]

There's no weeping that I can see.

Both Toyota water pumps I've had fail gave me a warning by weeping first. One was on a 2F and the other a 22R, so it's not exactly an exhaustive sampling. If there's drag, I think that's a good thing. My old ones spin freely, so the shaft seal is worn out. But OTOH, if there's any question, no time like the present to R&R. It's just money.

 

[Hltoppr]

Water pumps are cheap enough that I consider them preventative maintenance....I'd rather replace it now when I had the entire thing torn apart than go back in and do it again. Keep the old one as a spare....

I make a habit of replacing hard lines and couplers that show wear...also cheap insurance...

-H-

 

[taco chaser]

Most water pumps should be replaced around 90,000 miles or when ever you change the timing belt or chain if you can afford it. Timing belts on a toyota anyways are recomended to be replaced at 90,000 miles under normal driving conditions and 60,000 miles if you do daily low idle driving, stop n go, or just extended periods of idiling. Timing chains are normally 70,000 miles. The slight drag you feel on the water pump is normal and it means that the sealed bearing is still good and the pump is water tight. If the pump spins with no drag than that is usually a sure sign of failure plus the weep hole will leak small amounts of antifreeze after short drives to let you know the pump is failing. It would be smart preventive maintenance to just replace the water pump with the amount of miles on your rig if you have any doubts.

 

[Brian894x4]

In all my past vehicles, they have been cheap parts. Not so with the Land Cruiser. I ended up paying about $140 and that's with a nice discount. C-dan might be able to go a bit cheaper, but probably not much.

Most of the other pumps I've purchased were in the $60-80 range. The LC pump is not very big at all or complicated. I'm guessing it's just the rarity of it.

I am fairly satisfied that the drag I feel is fairly normal, but the noise I'm hearing is definately not. Something is up inside. We'll see when we pull it out. I don't regret getting a new one.

I always say now....cry only once. And by the time I'm done with this major PM, I won't even have to think about my entire cooling system for another 10 years, especially with the low miles I generally put on it.

 

[Mlachica]

Wise decision Brian, I would have done the same thing.

 

[Brian894x4]

Did you mod your Blue fan clutch for maximum cooling before you installed it?

No I haven't. It's not in yet, that will be one of the last things to go in when it gets put back together. This looks it will be a good week long project as I take my time and I'm still waiting for a few parts.

Doing an alternator upgrade and starter upgrade in the process, also.

I've read something on mud about using a different oil in the fan clutch. Is what you mean? I wonder if its really necessary?

Time to do some more reading....

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

I am NOT saying dont change it if you think something is wrong, piece of mind is priceless, BUT, the waterpump is one of the few items on the 80's that generally go forEVER, i dont recall many folks having one fail ever.

Hmmm, just my .02

Carry On!

 

[Brian894x4]

Well, I haven't pulled it off the truck yet, but it will be interesting to see what it looks like from the other side.

The problem with water pumps it the bearing. If it ever fails, you're literally dead in the water. It's a not a leaking coolent issue, it's a failed bearing issue and bearings just can't last forever. I imagine the service life is heavily dependent on whether or not the belts were overtighted or misaligned.

Thing is, if not for the truck already being apart, I'd probably not mess with it. But right now, it's right there, all ready to be pulled of the engine and so very easy to get too.

BTW, I compared how mine felt to another brand new Toyota water pump (although not a Land Cruiser one) and there was some slight drag, but it was smooth. Mine is jerky. Like the bearing has uneven wear or something. And again, the constant creaking noise when turning.

Just add to my woes....I have my radiator out and got a real good view of the inside of the radiator from the fill cap and my God! Grey sludge everywhere. Scary accumulation. I can't believe this radiator actually cooled anything, because some of the tubes looked plugged up. I'm not sure what I'm going to do about that.

By the time I get done, I'll probably have 100% new cooling system....just in time for the head gasket to go on me.

 

[DaveInDenver]

When I built my engine last winter I had the radiator cleaned up. Local shop charged me about $75 to rod it out, pressure check and paint it. Looked like new inside and out when he was done. For the my third gen, that was about 1/2 the cost of a made-in-Thailand Modine and A LOT cheaper than a Toyota. That is an easy decision if you ask me, any time the radiator is out and looks at all gunked up, $75 is cheap. On radiators with real brass tanks, you can service them a few times like this before the de-solder/soldering of the tanks is too much. But as long as the tanks are good, a radiator can be rebuilt and cleaned up forever. What would worry me is all that gray sludge is coming from somewhere and I think you probably can guess where.

 

[Life_in_4Lo]

brian,
a little off topic but what water temps have you been experiencing?

i recently flushed the coolant and altho the old stuff looked ok, it still made a difference with fresh coolant.
I applaud all your work! I have several new hoses but was too lazy to change them:ar15: I did the lower rad hose and called it a day! haha

 

[AndrewP]

On an 80 series, I'd just keep running the existing pump. Water pumps go a long long way, and unless you are over 200k or it's leaking from the weep hole, it's fine. Plus as mentioned, the pump seal will weep long before it actually fails. Keep an eye out for crusting around the weep hole.

The reason they suggest to replace with the timing belt is that the timing belt runs the pump, so if you are deep enough to replace the belt, you may as well replace the WP. The 80 has a chain to drive the cams and the WP is external and thus easy to inspect or replace.

I would replace the radiator. I think that's a 100k item in the 80 series, especially with the insensitive temp gauge that doesn't let you know until the engine has already gone into an overheat situation.

Consider modding the temp gauge to actually work, the instructions are on ih8mud.

 

[davegonz]

Keep running it until it fails. I have owned two 80 series land cruisers, one with 200k miles and one with 150k miles, and both had the original pump. Mr. T designed that one to last.