Milage and the slightly built 22RE

[4Rescue]

SO...

The time has come. The 22RE is making some horendous noises (rod bearing that I've known about since I bought the truck 2 years ago, and 246k ). SO I've decided to drop in a new motor. in the intrest of time and money...mostly money I'm going to drop a fresh 22RE LB in her.

I am really leaning towards going with an Engnbldr RV/Street head to get a little more grunt.

My question is this, and I know there may not be too many 22RE guy's here, but I believe there are a few of us... Do you guy's think or know of any major fuel economy losses with this set-up? The head has OS valves and a lopier cam I believe. Should I just skip it and go fully stock with the steel chain guide?

I need some opinions. Having built quite a few VW's, I'm familiar with the ins and outs of wringing power out of little 4cyl's. Those cars were alot more extreme than anything I'd want to do with this motor, but I'm still squeemish about possibly having to run premium.

I'm not looking for big power, I'm happy with my little motor, I think it enhances the charecter of these older trucks, and it's hard to fault the 22r for anything but being a little low on HP. I'm primarily going with this because of the added durability of certain parts Engnbldr offers. I figure a 22RE with a few logevity enhancing parts makes for a pretty bombproof little motor.

That said, this truck sees alot of duty hauling rafting gear around the NW from P-town out to Idaho etc. It's my DD, and milage is important to me. I don't want to get little more grunt at the cost of a big loss in fuel economy.

Any thoughts guy's n gals?

Cheers and No Worries

Dave

 

[Grim Reaper]

Mine is mild build. I have a 268 cam in it. Still running stock intake and exhaust. Looking for the newer intake that is supposed to free up a few ponies. and be a direct bolt on in place of the 86. I am really torn on the exhaust manifold. You see a LOT of issues with the O2's reading incorrectly and not passing smog with a header. Honestly the factory set up is not that restrictive.

If you look in the FAQ post in the toy section of Pirate 4x4 there is a LOT of info and some tests of different set ups on Dynos. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459180

They just did a clean up. The info is there but you will need to look for the post that has the link in it of look at the 2002 link in the first post and sort through it.

Honestly after going through mine and reading and driving the 3Rz that makes more power then a mildly modded 22RE. I still question if it wouldn't have been better for me to buy a low mile 3Rz and swap it in. Money wise it would have been a wash. MPG would have been about the same from people I know with them. Or probably could have even put a 3.4 in for not much more but less economy.

Any way back to the original question. I am getting 18 consistently around town (3 mile commute at a time with a LOT of traffic lights to and from work) and I have a heavy foot and tweeked AFM that runs pig rich at launch. If I get on the hwy I get 22mpg. I'm running 33 x12.5's and re-geared to 4.88. MPG confirmed with GPS.

 

[lionsbreath]

I was reading on 4x4wire about a guy that put in a rv cam and a few other up grades and is turning 33's and 4.56 getting 16+ in town. I run prem. fuel reguardless in mine and I get 20+ in town on 255/75/16's and 4.10.
http://www.4crawler.com/4Runner.shtml Take a look at his sight. or here http://www.downeyoff-road.com/

 

[lionsbreath]

My head gasket is taking a poop on me now so I am facing the same questions. If i have to take it a part for the head gasket I might as well do some of the up grades that I had in mind. Header, balnced intake and cam. For now I put some head gasket stop leak in there so I can order my parts and fix it after the holidays. Here are a few good sights.
http://www.downeyoff-road.com/
http://www.northwestoffroad.com/index.html

 

[4Rescue]

Guy's... Thank you. This is exactly what I was looking for. Cheers.

Reaper: THing is, I'm looking at quick turn around, and direct replacement. Belive me, I had a very short list of motors I wanted to put in it. basicly either a 1KZT or a 3RZ. Both would great in these older rigs, but doing a full custom motor swap just wasn't in the cards financialy. Like I said though, while I'm down on power, I'm a big 22RE fan. So, hearing those milage figures I'm fairly satisfied with the direction I'm heading.

Headers are out, so that's not an issue. As I understand, these motors flow pretty damn well from the factory. My uncle has been giving me the gears because from the get go he's been telling me to build another 22RE.


DAve

 

[4Rescue]

This may help:
https://expeditionportal.com/xenforo_live/index.php?threads/4582/

Also:
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=2963

And:
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=4360

I built mine with an Engnbldr RV/Street head, 261 cam, factory bottom end, LC Engineering header, 2.25" exhaust. I used all factory timing parts (plastic guides!). This is primarily because the metal backed guides I was using BROKE! They were the Tim Jenkins (DOA Racing) ones and he never called me back about the lifetime warranty. They lasted 45,000 miles, the original ones they replaced went about 140,000 miles and had not yet broken when I replaced them. Personal opinion, the problem is not plastic guides, but crappy aftermarket plastic guides. It is very rare that you hear about original guides not going 150,000 miles (when you really should be replacing the chain anyway). If you convert to a double row timing chain, then metal guides are necessary because the double row chain never wears out. But with a single row, going with plastic guides is noticeably quieter and you just throw in a new set of $25 guides whenever you do the chain. Just my $0.02.

Hard to say honestly that the aggressive cam and O/S valves make much difference by the seat of my pants. Sometimes I think to myself that it's pulling a little stronger, but don't expect a small block Chevy. Personally if I had it to spend over, I would stick with a stockish cam profile and very mild head work. Mostly just a gasket match and smooth the edges. Stock valves, too. The reason for this is getting the stock ECU to be happy with my engine has been a royal pain. I ended up tweaking the AFM to fool the computer into running the mixture rich enough not to ping. I run about zero degrees ignition advance (stock is 5 BTDC) in the summer, too. The upside to the 22R-E is that the EFI is very simple and reliable, the downside is it's not very adaptable or smart. So you have to fool it into doing what you want. I pass smog just fine and run 87 octane (mid grade here). With 91 octane (the high grade) it does not ping at all, but is a sluggish pig. If I move the advance to about 8 BTDC, it runs better but still not as good as 87 octane at 0 to about 2 BTDC. Mileage, about 20~21 overall on the commute, it'll do about 22 MPG on a consistent highway trip and all city it drops to about 16~18 MPG. It idles bad under about 950 RPM, so I keep the base idle set at about 1000 RPM so that with lights on it does not stumble. I do have A/C, but I have the idle kick up set for +250RPM for that. Any questions, yell them out.

This is what I was worried about with the Valves/head/cam package. I really don't want to have a complication arriving from oddball timing/AFM tuning. I think I may just go stock. The double row chain is intreaguing... so it NEVER wears out... what's the catch?

Another big piece of this puzzle will be the 33x9.50's and 4.88's which will be a great improvement to the final drive ratio (something that is absolutely crucial in these mouse motored trucks).

 

[DaveInDenver]

This is what I was worried about with the Valves/head/cam package. I really don't want to have a complication arriving from oddball timing/AFM tuning. I think I may just go stock. The double row chain is intreaguing... so it NEVER wears out... what's the catch?

Well, yeah, not exactly 'never', but they have a very, very long service life (like 250,000 miles). Toyota doesn't specify a particular interval for timing chains (unlike belts, which have a recommended replacement mileage). They have a procedure for checking the stretch of the chain. In the case of a single row like our 22R-E the maximum stretch is 147.0mm for 17 links measured at 3 random lengths around the chain. But I figure if you've gone and torn the engine down enough to have the chain out for inspection, you're probably gonna be replacing it anyway. For the double row I think the check is the same, but they just stretch slower. The catch is that converting to a double row requires you to source a new timing cover and all the timing parts from a 20R engine. In my case the A/C bracket would not work with a thicker timing cover (it's thicker by the extra width of the chain). I have aftermarket A/C and I think factory A/C brackets are different, but I dunno for certain.

Another big piece of this puzzle will be the 33x9.50's and 4.88's which will be a great improvement to the final drive ratio (something that is absolutely crucial in these mouse motored trucks).

Gearing is key with the engine. I run 5.29 gears with 33x9.50 tires and LOVE that combo. I do give up a bit of top end cruising, but OTOH I can pass on the interstate in 5th gear. I also drive in higher elevations and my little mill needs all the help it can get!

 

[4Rescue]

Well, yeah, not exactly 'never', but they have a very, very long service life (like 250,000 miles). Toyota doesn't specify a particular interval for timing chains (unlike belts, which have a recommended replacement mileage). They have a procedure for checking the stretch of the chain. In the case of a single row like our 22R-E the maximum stretch is 147.0mm for 17 links measured at 3 random lengths around the chain. But I figure if you've gone and torn the engine down enough to have the chain out for inspection, you're probably gonna be replacing it anyway. For the double row I think the check is the same, but they just stretch slower. The catch is that converting to a double row requires you to source a new timing cover and all the timing parts from a 20R engine. In my case the A/C bracket would not work with a thicker timing cover (it's thicker by the extra width of the chain). I have aftermarket A/C and I think factory A/C brackets are different, but I dunno for certain.

Gearing is key with the engine. I run 5.29 gears with 33x9.50 tires and LOVE that combo. I do give up a bit of top end cruising, but OTOH I can pass on the interstate in 5th gear. I also drive in higher elevations and my little mill needs all the help it can get!

So the double row chains are from 20R's? I've got Factory AC so maybe I can make that work. A 250K Timing chain interval sounds nice.

I'm going to go 4.88 because I want the cruising RPM drop of the taller ratio. And I imagine going from 31x10.50/4.10's to 33.9.50/4.88 shold be quite different/better.

Thanks for the info Dave.

Cheers

Dave