Multi Role 2500 Ram

[XCRunner200U]

Hello,

I'll try to make this as short as I can. This summer I took my wife and 4 year old son out to Colorado for your 1st overloading trip. I used a bunch of the advice that I received from my post about that trip several months ago (even though I suck and never came back and updated with how things went, sorry about that). Needless to say my wife was hooked and my son did great traveling in the car seat all day. We rented a built 5th 4Runner and did the Alpine Loop, we had an absolute blast, and it went better than expected in terms of getting my wife on board. (though I had to keep reminding her that not every trip will be as picturesque as south east Colorado haha)

Anyways fast forward a few months and we have a new to us 2016 Cummins Ram 2500. We are planning, like many Ram owners here, on slowly building it up to be similar in off road capability to a power wagon. I am new to ram/cummins but not new to diesels, had a 2010 vw tdi Jetta which we used the money from the buy back to get get the truck lol. This truck will be used for multiple roles, daily driving/commuting from NE Ohio to SE Michigan for work several times a month, a work truck for our side business, a wood/timber and gravel hauler for around the house and another side venture, plus it will be made into a part time overland rig.

As a result of it being used in so many different roles I am unable to make any major changes that would make it a dedicated vehicle in any direction. I would love to put a fully built suspension but I just can't justify the hit in capacity it would take. Also I have some concerns about rear squat when in overloading mode. (On road, not so much as I could make up for the sag with air bags when towing and hauling). In doing some rough math I am figuring about 750-900lbs in the rear once fully built. I fear that the Thuren and Carli springs are too soft. This has me looking at the Carli 2.5 leveling kit, this allows for a fully tuned front end and a slightly tuned rear end but no hit to hauling capacity. I am also wondering about putting in the rear components from the AEV kit to give me a slight lift in the rear. Not sure that it can be done or if its even needed. Im also not sure how much it would squat with that weight in the rear.

Any thoughts or guidance about the suspension given all of the variables would be great. I am looking to increase wheel travel and articulation, front and rear, but also not have squat under the overland load. Eventually we may get an expedition trailer, but that is quite a ways off.

For the tires I am looking at 35s or 37s in the STT Pros or the KM3s mounted on AEV Salta flat black wheels. These tires would only be on the vehicle when needed, the street tires would be swapped back during its other roles, so I am less concerned about a permanent hit to mpg and road noise issues. Does anyone have thoughts on either tire size or brand? I have spent hours reading about the various pros and cons between the two, size wise, but it has only muddled the waters further haha. Every time I think I have my mind made up I read something else that has me going the other way. I would love to make a decision soon so I can get them mounted for camping in the fields at Expo East. I guess another way to ask this is, has anyone ever got 35s and found them in a situation where they truly needed 37s? Sure 37s look great, but is the hit to mpg, on an overloading trip, plus the increased wear and tear on the vehicles worth it? Has anyone noticed abnormal wear issues when going to 37s that they feel would not have been caused by 35s? And on and on this inner battle rages lol.

I guess this wasn't as short as I had hoped it would be. Ill try to post some pictures later of the truck and a a few pics from our trip earlier this year. Thanks again so much for all of your help guidance!!

Runner

 

[ttengineer]

I also have have a Ram, although mine is a 3500.

I went with the AEV kit because I need the payload for work and didn’t want to add bags just yet.

Personally, I like the kit, you just have to be aware it’s not a go fast kit like Carli or Thuren.

Upgrade the sway bar and the radius arms to Carli stuff no matter what kit you run and you’ll see added articulation over the stock components.

It should be noted though that the AEV kit uses stock springs, so your ride and articulation will be completely dependent on them. The AEV shocks help slightly, but a custom set of kings or fox’s would make a bigger difference. Still though stock springs suck but is why payload is so good.


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[Regcabguy]

CJC Offroad can help. They don't oversell.
http://www.cjcoffroad.com/Thuren-Fabrication-2013-Overland-System-p/tf-rafcolsystem.htm
Strapt Performance also.
http://www.straptperformance.com/Su...n&f-Dodge=5143&show=15&page=1&f-Ram 2500=5151

 

[Buliwyf]

Forget about km3's for OH, and MI. Not too good in snow. Get the STT's instead.

Don't 35's fit that truck stock? 37's on 18x9 wheel ride nicer, and give an extra inch of clearance. So bumpy dirt roads, they make a difference. Otherwise, if you can fit 35's stock, stick with that since it's a work truck.

I'm going to try Sumo Rebel springs next, instead of airbags and cups. 1000# is only 1.5" squat.

 

[ttengineer]

Yea 35s fit stock.

These trucks look perfect with 37s in my opinion.

I run the Nitto Ridge grappler in 37x12.50r17. They ride extremely well and are super quiet on pavement. I think capacity is 3600# per tire at 55psi.


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[Kingsize24]

Nice! Post some pics when you can. I also have an AEV kit. It does what I need it to, and I tow heavy from time to time, so payload is needed as well.

Welcome to the Ram Fam.

 

[Explorerinil]

Great choice on th truck! AEV makes a decent, although high priced spacer kit that really adds nothing more than tire clearance, if that’s what your after go that route. I will mention that I pull 10k plus often with my carli kit. Once you own a truck with a tuned performance suspension it’s hard to go back. Do not run BFG tires you will regret that, if your running 37 inch tires get ready to re gear.

 

[Explorerinil]

Hello,

I'll try to make this as short as I can. This summer I took my wife and 4 year old son out to Colorado for your 1st overloading trip. I used a bunch of the advice that I received from my post about that trip several months ago (even though I suck and never came back and updated with how things went, sorry about that). Needless to say my wife was hooked and my son did great traveling in the car seat all day. We rented a built 5th 4Runner and did the Alpine Loop, we had an absolute blast, and it went better than expected in terms of getting my wife on board. (though I had to keep reminding her that not every trip will be as picturesque as south east Colorado haha)

Anyways fast forward a few months and we have a new to us 2016 Cummins Ram 2500. We are planning, like many Ram owners here, on slowly building it up to be similar in off road capability to a power wagon. I am new to ram/cummins but not new to diesels, had a 2010 vw tdi Jetta which we used the money from the buy back to get get the truck lol. This truck will be used for multiple roles, daily driving/commuting from NE Ohio to SE Michigan for work several times a month, a work truck for our side business, a wood/timber and gravel hauler for around the house and another side venture, plus it will be made into a part time overland rig.

As a result of it being used in so many different roles I am unable to make any major changes that would make it a dedicated vehicle in any direction. I would love to put a fully built suspension but I just can't justify the hit in capacity it would take. Also I have some concerns about rear squat when in overloading mode. (On road, not so much as I could make up for the sag with air bags when towing and hauling). In doing some rough math I am figuring about 750-900lbs in the rear once fully built. I fear that the Thuren and Carli springs are too soft. This has me looking at the Carli 2.5 leveling kit, this allows for a fully tuned front end and a slightly tuned rear end but no hit to hauling capacity. I am also wondering about putting in the rear components from the AEV kit to give me a slight lift in the rear. Not sure that it can be done or if its even needed. Im also not sure how much it would squat with that weight in the rear.

Any thoughts or guidance about the suspension given all of the variables would be great. I am looking to increase wheel travel and articulation, front and rear, but also not have squat under the overland load. Eventually we may get an expedition trailer, but that is quite a ways off.

For the tires I am looking at 35s or 37s in the STT Pros or the KM3s mounted on AEV Salta flat black wheels. These tires would only be on the vehicle when needed, the street tires would be swapped back during its other roles, so I am less concerned about a permanent hit to mpg and road noise issues. Does anyone have thoughts on either tire size or brand? I have spent hours reading about the various pros and cons between the two, size wise, but it has only muddled the waters further haha. Every time I think I have my mind made up I read something else that has me going the other way. I would love to make a decision soon so I can get them mounted for camping in the fields at Expo East. I guess another way to ask this is, has anyone ever got 35s and found them in a situation where they truly needed 37s? Sure 37s look great, but is the hit to mpg, on an overloading trip, plus the increased wear and tear on the vehicles worth it? Has anyone noticed abnormal wear issues when going to 37s that they feel would not have been caused by 35s? And on and on this inner battle rages lol.

I guess this wasn't as short as I had hoped it would be. Ill try to post some pictures later of the truck and a a few pics from our trip earlier this year. Thanks again so much for all of your help guidance!!

Runner

I missed the question you asked, has anyone needed 37’s... yeah I do, and often. I ran 35’s and the greater ground clearance with 37’s keeps me from getting hung up while hunting. When I had 35’s I buried them up to the rims, I got through it but the added clearance and larger sidewall of the 37’s give me more ground clearance and a better ride.

 

[ttengineer]

Great choice on th truck! AEV makes a decent, although high priced spacer kit that really adds nothing more than tire clearance, if that’s what your after go that route. I will mention that I pull 10k plus often with my carli kit. Once you own a truck with a tuned performance suspension it’s hard to go back. Do not run BFG tires you will regret that, if your running 37 inch tires get ready to re gear.

That’s just not true at all with respect to the AEV lift.

Yes it uses the stock springs, but it changes the roll center of the steering, which improves feel, and it moves the axle forward while also being a bolt on ready system for hydro steer. It’s more than just a spacer kit. But it’s also no Carli or Thuren which are arguably the best offered.

You say you tow with your Carli, do you have air bags and which Carli do you run?


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[tatanka48]

if returning to do the Alpine Loop just remember parts of that route will not accomodate full sized trucks w/ a stance/footprint that is ANY wider than stock

i've run it in an 89 Chevy extended cab V-8 gas, a 97 Dodge 2500 extended cab diesel, a 99 2500 Suburban and a 2002 F-350 super crew diesel

all running stock tires mostly 235/85-16 Michelins (except the Chevy)

have also run the loop in an 85 Wrangler(also ran Black Bear and virtually all the other passes in that corner of Colorado) and Y2K Cherokee w/ stock Goodyears

the full sized vehicles sporty to say the least

anything any wider would have not been possible IMHO

the Jeeps did just fine

i am not familiar w/ the suspension mods you are talking about so can't/wont speak to them

if Dodge had made a 3500 Mega Cab w/ an 8' bed SRW i would be driving one instead of the F-350(long standing bridal unit put her foot down which she rarely does)

w/ a bride who warmed up to the Alpine Loop i'd be careful going fwd...

just one old man's 2¢ worth

T

 

[Tex68w]

Over the years of running many vehicles with tires ranging from 32's all the way up to 40's (46's if you count the LMTV), I have found that almost any trail can be run with 35's. Sure there are advantages to larger tires, but it's really a point of diminishing returns once you go larger than 35's. I agree that these trucks look just about perfect with 37's, hell I think they need 40's personally, but you won't be missing out on much with 35's when it comes to capability.

 

[Explorerinil]

That’s just not true at all with respect to the AEV lift.

Yes it uses the stock springs, but it changes the roll center of the steering, which improves feel, and it moves the axle forward while also being a bolt on ready system for hydro steer. It’s more than just a spacer kit. But it’s also no Carli or Thuren which are arguably the best offered.

You say you tow with your Carli, do you have air bags and which Carli do you run?


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I don’t think the AEV kit alone will improve any ride characteristic, plus they have issues with the steering set up and trac bar, I forgot to mention they still use the inferior stock trac bar. I’m not sold on that kit, sorry. For the carli kit, I run firestone air bags with cradles... I will mention I had them on the truck before the carli kit. Since I am always towing something or hauling I run ari bags on every truck I have owned, I prefer eternal stability they give you while towing.

Carli backcountry with mini packs, my truck is a 3500

 

[ttengineer]

I don’t think the AEV kit alone will improve any ride characteristic, plus they have issues with the steering set up and trac bar, I forgot to mention they still use the inferior stock trac bar. I’m not sold on that kit, sorry. For the carli kit, I run firestone air bags with cradles... I will mention I had them on the truck before the carli kit. Since I am always towing something or hauling I run ari bags on every truck I have owned, I prefer eternal stability they give you while towing.

Carli backcountry with mini packs, my truck is a 3500

Again, that’s not true at all.

AEV provides a new track bar and drag link with the kit.

The “steering issue” is not an AEV issue at all. People that have had problems did not machine their knuckle properly for the drag link. It’s a bad install problem, not an AEV kit problem. If you buy the pre machined knuckle from AEV you won’t have a single problem and you’ll save yourself a few hours of install time and you’ll gain improved steering characteristics.

Ride improvement with the AEV kit is gained by running bigger tires and an improved shock with better valving. It’s still a stock spring, but the AEV shocks can control them better than the stock shocks.

Yea the Carli kit won’t tow well with heavy loads with out airbags. It’s just the consequence of running softer springs. There is always a give and take with every kit available.

About the only one that can do everything is a fully optioned Carli or Thuren kit running full leaf springs in the rear with air bags on daystar cradles. Doing that will get you as close to stock payload as possible but still allow you to go full boogie without damaging your air bags. But that also costs around 9-10k in parts alone.


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[Explorerinil]

Again, that’s not true at all.

AEV provides a new track bar and drag link with the kit.

The “steering issue” is not an AEV issue at all. People that have had problems did not machine their knuckle properly for the drag link. It’s a bad install problem, not an AEV kit problem. If you buy the pre machined knuckle from AEV you won’t have a single problem and you’ll save yourself a few hours of install time and you’ll gain improved steering characteristics.

Ride improvement with the AEV kit is gained by running bigger tires and an improved shock with better valving. It’s still a stock spring, but the AEV shocks can control them better than the stock shocks.

Yea the Carli kit won’t tow well with heavy loads with out airbags. It’s just the consequence of running softer springs. There is always a give and take with every kit available.

About the only one that can do everything is a fully optioned Carli or Thuren kit running full leaf springs in the rear with air bags on daystar cradles. Doing that will get you as close to stock payload as possible but still allow you to go full boogie without damaging your air bags. But that also costs around 9-10k in parts alone.


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Read up on those bilstein shocks or watch a cjc off-road video on them, they don’t really offer any improvement. The AEV trac bar is still a weak link, agree or not, that’s a fact. For the money you would pay for an AEV kit with their knuckles you can get real gains elsewhere.

 

[ttengineer]

Read up on those bilstein shocks or watch a cjc off-road video on them, they don’t really offer any improvement. The AEV trac bar is still a weak link, agree or not, that’s a fact. For the money you would pay for an AEV kit with their knuckles you can get real gains elsewhere.

I assume you are referring to this video:


The Bilstein 5100 that you buy at the store are not the same as the ones that come with the AEV kit.

They are valved differently and use a few different components, at least according to AEV. I’ve never taken one apart to verify but I doubt AEV would be foolish enough to lie about that.

Are kings or fox shocks better? Depending on who valves them, vehemently yes.

But I’ve seen $3000 Kings that ride like bricks because they were not valved correctly.

It all depends on how it’s valved and the terrain it’s intended for.

The AEV Bilsteins are perfectly fine for street and 90% of “Overland/Expedition” users out there.

I’m also not sure why you think the AEV trac bar is a weak link as I have neither seen nor read a single bad report on it.

I have seen bad reports in the drag link though and every single one was due to a bad install.




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