Need bolt suggestions and dealer...

[jsmoriss]

Hi everyone,

I've had a small problem mounting some beadlocks:

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=467067&postcount=315

There's no room for a standard bolt head and socket, so I've been thinking of replacing the bolts by allan key button heads or 12 point flange bolts. I think an allan key head would allow the bolt head the most space since there's no socket involved.

What do you think?

Can you suggest a good online store to buy 5/16" coarse thread, grade 8, allan key, button head bolts?

Thanks,
js.

 

[Gear]

I usually just walk in to Fastenal, but a quick search on there website found these. By the way you did not mention how long they need to be. Hope this helps. Oh and I have no idea on whether they are rated for the job you are going to be using them for.

Good luck! I am enjoying your ongoing build up. Very impressive.

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=Product:1124071&ucst=t

 

[stevenmd]

I usually just walk in to Fastenal, but a quick search on there website found these. By the way you did not mention how long they need to be. Hope this helps. Oh and I have no idea on whether they are rated for the job you are going to be using them for.

Good luck! I am enjoying your ongoing build up. Very impressive.

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=Product:1124071&ucst=t

Fastenal x2. They can get anything. Literally. I have a few friends who work for the company.

 

[jsmoriss]

Thanks Justin.

I had a look at Fastenal, but I don't think they have Grade 8+ allan key button head bolts.

I found these though...

http://www.allensfasteners.com/detail.asp?Product_ID=0114+5/16-18+X+BHCS at $0.40 ea.

http://www.allensfasteners.com/detail.asp?Product_ID=0502+5/16-18+HEX+BLACK+OXIDE+ARP at $1.77 ea. It's a 3/8" head instead of the standard 1/2".

http://www.allensfasteners.com/detail.asp?Product_ID=0510+12PT+BLACK+OXIDE+ARP at $1.76 ea.

Hard to go wrong with those ARP bolts, but they're kinda pricey for a guy without a job.

The specs I'm looking for are 5/16" by 1 1/2", coarse thread, grade 8.

Even if I fix the 1/2" socket clearance issue, I'm wondering if the surface will have too much of a slant. Supposedly the bolt hole has a 10 degree slant towards the outside, canceling the tendency for the ring to slope inwards, but that may not be enough. I'll have to take some measurements tomorrow, but the ring appears to slope way more than 10 degrees...

js.

 

[MC4X4]

I don't know wether you can get them over there, but do a search for unbrako we use them here in Australia .I have used them on both walker evans and champion beadlocks with great success.. The only problem is when the allan head fills up with mud.
Great build up. cheers mc
I just found a link for you.

Unbrako (USA)
INTERFAST U.S.A. (Deepak Fasteners)
4444 Lee Road,
Cleveland, Ohio 44128-2902
Ph: +1-216-581-3000
Fax: +1-800-225-5777
Email: unbrakosales@unbrako.com

 

[jcbrandon]

I've had good success with Bolt Depot

Looks like they might have what you are looking for, in chrome, no less:
http://www.boltdepot.com/product.aspx?cc=13&cs=72&cm=74&cd=1599

 

[jsmoriss]

I have used them on both walker evans and champion beadlocks with great success.. The only problem is when the allan head fills up with mud.

Excellent. Thanks.

Would you suggest the "socket head" or "button head"?

js.

 

[jsmoriss]

Aside from the socket pushing the bolt head inwards, there's still the question of the surface angle on which the bolt will rest. Champion puts a 10 degree angle on the bolt holes, to compensate for the inward flex, but I didn't think that was enough for this 1" thick bead. So, I re-torqued one of the wheels to 10 lbs, removed a bolt, and used a ratchet extension w/ a square to give me an idea of the surface angle.

It's about 8 degrees. I'd say that's pretty significant.

I could use some angle washers, but I've only been able to find square ones so far...

I'll call Champion on Monday and see what they have to say about this, but I'm not feeling very optimistic. I need these tires on the truck for the 30th...

If I had a choice, I might have gone with a different manufacturer, and with hind-sight I really wish I did, but 16x8" 5on5" beadlocks are almost non-existant. I think Allied makes custom beadlocks, but it may be too late for that.

js.

 

[gabepari]

Here you go, probably cost more than the bead locks though :elkgrin:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#91131a050/=3pre7o

You might be able to find something similar at a local fastener shop.

Gabe

 

[ntsqd]

If the Socket Head Cap Screw meets the 1961 Series specs then it is better than an SAE G8 bolt. The specs call for the bolt to be both stronger and more ductile than a G8. However, Button Head, Low Head, and Flat Head Cap Screws do not have as high of a requirement. I don't recall for certain what their spec is, but I'd guess more ductility and a strength somewhere between a G5 and the SHCS call-out. I can look it up tomorrow if it becomes important.

I would be very cautious about using any type of socket head in that application. It would be very easy for the socket to become mangled beyond use, and then you're looking at a broken bolt type of extraction.

About the angle, are the bolt head seats at an angle to the threaded hole, or is the whole hole at this angle? I'm guessing the latter. If the former then I would send the wheels back. That is a totally unacceptable thing to do to a bolt.

ARP sells the 12 point flanged bolts. Can get those through Summit. Just look up the p/n on ARP's site and search it on Summit's site.

 

[jsmoriss]

About the angle, are the bolt head seats at an angle to the threaded hole, or is the whole hole at this angle? I'm guessing the latter. If the former then I would send the wheels back. That is a totally unacceptable thing to do to a bolt.

It's the former, which is the main reason why the bolts are breaking. The manufacturer machines the seats with a 10 degree angle to cancel out the flex, but I'm looking at approx. 20 degrees of total flex. I'll talk with Champion tomorrow morning and see if they can machine new rings with a 20 degree correction. If not, then I'll have no choice but to send them back.

js.

 

[ntsqd]

OK, I have a better picture of what is going there. Still totally unacceptable thing to do to a bolt, but that is partly why the washers linked above are made.

Will a 3/8" drive socket fit into the counter-bore? If so then for torquing purposes I'd either secure a 3/8" drive torque wrench or a 3/8" x 1/2" drive adapter.
Third option would be to turn down the the OD of a socket to fit. I'd use an impact socket and not a chromed socket (much easier to work with).

 

[MC4X4]

Excellent. Thanks.

Would you suggest the "socket head" or "button head"?

js.

I use the socket head.
Swampers are always hard to mount. I had to trim the excess loose rubber off the bead. They bead did sit on more of an angle with swampers, but they were fine.
Good luck with the tires. I really like the LTB's. I just ordered a set of forty's for the brute I am building.
cheers Mark

 

[jsmoriss]

OK, I have a better picture of what is going there. Still totally unacceptable thing to do to a bolt, but that is partly why the washers linked above are made.

Will a 3/8" drive socket fit into the counter-bore? If so then for torquing purposes I'd either secure a 3/8" drive torque wrench or a 3/8" x 1/2" drive adapter. Third option would be to turn down the the OD of a socket to fit. I'd use an impact socket and not a chromed socket (much easier to work with).

To fix the problem without support from the manufacturer, I'd have to use those self-aligning washers and 5/16" bolts with a 3/8" hex head. The washers would be thick enough that the 3/8" hex head would stick out a bit and a 3/8" socket should be doable. A cap screw socket head would also work, obviously. I paid for a flush-mount ring, so it would be a shame to loose that feature, not to mention those washers are bloody expensive.

I really want to use these tires at an upcoming Jeep Jamboree, so my plans are:

A) Ask the manufacturer to machine new rings that are thicker (contact the wheel surface instead of leaving a gap, thus limiting further flex) AND have a 20 degree correction instead of the standard 10 degree. At a minimum, I need that 20 degree correction. If they don't go for it, then I'll have to find a way to return the wheels and go to plan B.

B) I'm trying to find out if Allied can supply their "Rock 8" beadlocks in a black 16x8" 5on5" 3.5" BS configuration, sometime before next week-end. It's a stretch, I know. Anyone an Allied dealer here?

C) I can un-mount my summer tires and mount the LTBs in their place. The wheels are not beadlocks, but I'd prefer at least having the tires if nothing else. When I get back I'd have to keep the LTBs on there for another 1 1/2 months (my winter tires are studded so I have to wait until Nov 15th before switching).

Obviously I'm hoping plan A works out...

js.

 

[southpier]

these folks are excellent to do business:


http://www.warwickfasteners.com/home.html