Need New Tundra Suspension

[MobTuff]

So it's time for me to spend some money on suspension. I hope this post isn't too boring and long but here goes. I'm on my second set of Bilstein 5100 adjustable shocks. The first set broke at the weld above the eyelet. The second set is leaking fluid at the weld and could brake again at any moment. I'm obviously done with Bilstein. I think using the shocks at their full extension is what's causing the issues. I'd like to invest in a more expensive coilover design with aftermarket upper control arms. My highest priority is reliability. My Tundra is my lifeline. It's my daily driver, my work truck and my overland vehicle. When that shock failed I was almost 2 hours out of town. With my job I'm driving from about 100-200 miles a day monday through friday. 50+ of those daily miles are off road. Most of the time with out even a dirt road to our remote sites. That's not counting the camping/overland that happens on the weekends. The truck is always loaded with at least 500lbs of gear in the bed and on the lumber rack. I'm no race truck. I take the worst terrain at a slow pace trying to take the best route.

Anyways I've been reluctant to get fancy aftermarket parts as they usually need constant maintenance/replacement. Also rebuildable shocks take weeks to get back. It's hard for me to have more than a day or two of downtime at any given moment. I know I need to just bite the bullet and spend some good money to improve the front end. I just want to make the right decision. These Tundras don't have much aftermarket support so I guess that makes the decision making a bit easier.

Upper Control Arms:
As far as I know for upper control arms my only two options are Camburg Uni-ball UCAs or Light Racing UCAs. I'm a little biased on this decision and want to go with LR. I've had the Camburg UCAs on my past 2wd Tundra and just couldn't keep them maintained. I spent so much time cleaning them and using the dry lube and they'd still squeak like crazy. Then again I have zero experience with the Light Racing product. The covered ball join vs the Uniball heim joint seems like it could prove to be a more reliable option. Any opinions are much appreciated.

Coilovers
Now for shocks am I right to be considering the offerings from Icon, Fox, King, Toyotec? Any other I should consider? What specs can I look up for these shocks? I know valving and spring rate is important on a per vehicle basis but I can't seem to find any relevant specs other than just blatant marketing.

Icon: So many people rave about their Icons. They look like a well built shock and I really like the idea of their neoprene covers. From what I gather they're a shock designed for offroad racing. Super high speed travel rather than a typical overland vehicle that would be taking things slow. Is it correct to assume the ride will be more stiff? Aren't they designed to take high speed bumps really well but traveling at slow speeds on rough terrain be outside their real advantage?

King and Fox: I don't see many people with these two brands. I'm having a hard time finding people first hand experience with them and the Tundra. But both seem like top tier manufactures of shocks though.

Toyotec: I'm currently leaning towards Toyotec since they seem to be concentrated on Toyota specifically. ToyTec's BOSS front coilover seems like it might be the best fit for the truck. Says it's valved specifically for the Tundra (I would think the Bilsteins would be too?). I've read a few happy tundra owners with them.

Anyone have any thoughts? I really wish they'd have specs listed that I could compare. Like travel length, spring rate, valving. Am I missing something or is it mostly just marketing? Any suggestions would be much appreciated as I'd like to get this done early next week. Thanks for reading.

 

[jim65wagon]

My Donahoes only get 20 - 30,000 miles between rebuilds. I would not recommend a rebuildable just because of the miles you put on that truck.
If I were to get another set of coilovers I'd probably try the BOSS.

And the Donahoes are stiff on slow stuff. They're great if you can fly down the road but most of our travels are slow twisty forest roads.

I'd stay with a no more than 2 inch lift and keep the stock uca.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[hol571]

I'm running icon's with the cdc valve, so there is a little adjustability for different terrain which helps. I'm pretty happy with them, but I haven't had them on long enough for a rebuild so I can't comment on that. I was going back and forth between Icon and King and my choice was made when I got a better sale price on the Icon's. I don't think you could go wrong with any of the icon/fox/king/ads coilovers.

I do know that kings can be ordered with either 600# or 700# springs (600# is the standard spec for king), fox supposedly comes w/ 700# and icon 650#. Fox seem to require a slight amount of grinding on the lca to fit the lower end at full droop. I don't think there is really any travel length difference between them.

The mid travel suspension threads on tundratalk.net have useful info about 4 of the different brands. SDHQ Offroad recommends icon and can answer tundra specific questions about them. @dirtydeeds on tundratalk and Filthy Motorsports/ are good resources for king and both allow you to order the kings with the spring rate and valving you want. @mcm on tundratalk can answer questions about the ads coilovers. All the brands are also available w/ adjusters like the icon's now have.

Have you thought about rebuilding them yourself?

For UCA's I'm running the camburg uniballs (don't have the squeaking issues you did), but they also make a ball joint version. You might want to take a look at the uniball arms from total chaos, and Icon also makes 2 different versions of uniball uca's

 

[character zero]

I'm running Kings and they've been nothing but butter.

Icons tend to have valved more DIGRESSIVE shimming in the past (yeah, google it), and you are right, it correlates to a much much stiffer ride. They can custom build them though, however you like them, as they just did when re-building them for a buddy who wanted to get away from the harshness.

Fox makes a good product too.

EDIT: realized my mistake. Higher threshold for initial shock travel...

 

[FJR Colorado]

Toyotec: I'm currently leaning towards Toyotec since they seem to be concentrated on Toyota specifically. ToyTec’s BOSS front coilover seems like it might be the best fit for the truck. Says it's valved specifically for the Tundra (I would think the Bilsteins would be too?). I've read a few happy tundra owners with them.

Big thumbs up for the Toytec BOSS kit. See my build thread for details (and more Bilstein fails; as if you need them )

JUST got back from a 1,900+ mile adventure to Yellowstone and surroundings. I swear by this kit. Truck handles superbly.

See my build thread about diff drop, new boots and not over-doing it in-front. I'm perfect since the final tweakings.

 

[MobTuff]

Thanks for all the input!

Big thumbs up for the Toytec BOSS kit. See my build thread for details (and more Bilstein fails; as if you need them )

JUST got back from a 1,900+ mile adventure to Yellowstone and surroundings. I swear by this kit. Truck handles superbly.

See my build thread about diff drop, new boots and not over-doing it in-front. I'm perfect since the final tweakings.

I've been following your build. Didn't see you had so many updates, definenitly another tundra build I'll subscribe too. Great truck. Really like what you're doing. Glad to hear you're having good luck with the Toyotec Boss.

I'm running Kings and they've been nothing but butter.

Icons tend to have valved more progressive shimming in the past (yeah, google it), and you are right, it correlates to a much much stiffer ride. They can custom build them though, however you like them, as they just did when re-building them for a buddy who wanted to get away from the harshness.

Fox makes a good product too.

I like to hear you find the Kings giving you a good ride. Do you find them good at lower speed rough road travel? Did you ever get your lift sorted out? I was trying to make sense of all the information on your post over at TS here:
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/lifting/294801-need-some-guidance-lift-i-had/
It's pretty late and I think I'll give it another read tomorrow. But any explanation would be great. I completely feel the stiffer ride on the highest adjustment on the Bilsteins. The whole point of their discussion was less travel when you adjust the shock higher causing a rougher ride because you don't have enough droop/travel?

I'm running icon's with the cdc valve, so there is a little adjustability for different terrain which helps. I'm pretty happy with them, but I haven't had them on long enough for a rebuild so I can't comment on that. I was going back and forth between Icon and King and my choice was made when I got a better sale price on the Icon's. I don't think you could go wrong with any of the icon/fox/king/ads coilovers.

I do know that kings can be ordered with either 600# or 700# springs (600# is the standard spec for king), fox supposedly comes w/ 700# and icon 650#. Fox seem to require a slight amount of grinding on the lca to fit the lower end at full droop. I don't think there is really any travel length difference between them.

The mid travel suspension threads on tundratalk.net have useful info about 4 of the different brands. SDHQ Offroad recommends icon and can answer tundra specific questions about them. @dirtydeeds on tundratalk and Filthy Motorsports/ are good resources for king and both allow you to order the kings with the spring rate and valving you want. @mcm on tundratalk can answer questions about the ads coilovers. All the brands are also available w/ adjusters like the icon's now have.

Have you thought about rebuilding them yourself?

For UCA's I'm running the camburg uniballs (don't have the squeaking issues you did), but they also make a ball joint version. You might want to take a look at the uniball arms from total chaos, and Icon also makes 2 different versions of uniball uca's

Thanks for the info. Currently going through every forum post I can get my hands on.

My Donahoes only get 20 - 30,000 miles between rebuilds. I would not recommend a rebuildable just because of the miles you put on that truck.
If I were to get another set of coilovers I'd probably try the BOSS.

And the Donahoes are stiff on slow stuff. They're great if you can fly down the road but most of our travels are slow twisty forest roads.

I'd stay with a no more than 2 inch lift and keep the stock uca.

Yeah I might be trying to hard for this front lift but I really need a better alternative to these Bilsteins. I'm thinking upgraded UCAs could really help with travel and better articulation. Really enjoy your trip reports by the way and helping us Tundra guys get more exposure on Expo!



At this point I think I've ruled out Icons due to hearing so much about how they're valved for high speed offroad racing.

The Fox's with their DSC adjustments seem really intriguing. I like the idea of being able to adjust both the high speed and low speed compression. But the remote reservoir issues I've seen and being the most expensive option rule them out as well.

I'm down to the Toyotec Boss coilovers or the Kings. I'm a little concerned about the Boss coilovers after calling Toyotec today. The guy on the phone basically said they're just redone bilstein shocks with a coilover design. That weld on the bottom of the shock reminds me of the Bilstiens so much. I really want to like them after hear stories from FJR Colorado and the like. Also being so affordable is very attractive.

I'm now also concerned about the Kings after reading characterzero's post about not getting 2" out of the Kings. My first priority is having the correct travel but I also don't need the rear end sticking up like crazy. Going to call King tomorrow and see how quickly they can get them to me. I just can't help looking at both shocks thinking the extra $200 for the Kings might be worth it. Any other comments are much appreciated.

 

[SDHQJASON]

Hello All,

I would like to clear some of the information posted in this thread in hopes to get everyone on the same page...
A progressive valving stack means that as the shock travels it gets progressively firmer in attempts to slow the travel whether it be up (bump) travel or down (rebound) travel. This is beneficial for those who do use their trucks in high speed, big hole environments...places like Baja, Mexico or other off-road race venues.
In contrast, a digressive valving stack can be thought of as a "daily driver" valving stack. This type of valving is beneficial for typical on-road use with added off road performance. The way a digressive valving stack works is it allows for "stages" of shock travel by being initially firm, softening up, then firming up again in the last inch or so of travel to prevent harsh bottom outs or top outs (full extension).

Icon Shocks - These coilovers are not designed for high speed off-road racing. These coilovers have a digressive valving design, not progressive. Since Icon is a 2.5 diameter shock you will have more damping and cooling ability than the Toytec shock. You can get these coilovers in either an Internal Reservoir (IFP) or External Reservoir (Remote Reservoir) design. With the External Reservoir you can also add their CDC Valve which is their compression adjuster.
Icons can be custom ordered to suit your liking whether that be a heavier spring rate to accommodate heavy front bumpers, winches, etc. We can also have them set up with softer valving. 650lb springs are the standard and can be upgraded to a 700lb spring at an additional charge.

Fox Shocks - Fox has traditionally set up their coilovers with a progressive valving stack. They are primarily an off road racing shock company and that is how they set up their OE Replacement shock line. Fox offers an IFP Shock, Remote Reservoir and Remote Reservoir with DSC Adjusters. Fox is also 2.5 diameter shock you will have more dampening and cooling ability than the Toytec shock.
700lb springs are the norm for. No option for other spring rates. Coils can be ordered separately. No custom valving available.
The DSC (Dual Speed Compression Adjuster) is a nice option because it allows you to control both the slow speed and high speed compression independently.

King Shocks - Same as Fox...progressive valving stack. They are also primarily an off road racing shock company and that is how they set up their OE Replacement shock line. King only offers their coilovers with a remote reservoir; there is an adjustable compression adjuster option. King is also 2.5 diameter shock you will have more dampening and cooling ability than the Toytec shock.
600lb springs are the standard option for King; 700lb springs are an upgrade you can do at no charge. You can request custom valving as well as long as you know exactly what you are after. Again, compression adjusters are an option on these coilovers. In my experience, the King compression adjusters don't make as big of a difference as the Fox and Icon systems.

Toytec - In my opinion these are a glorified Bilstein 5100 shock with a threaded body on it. With that skinny rod end, I would expect the same issues you experienced with the Bilsteins...breakage. Also, since these are a 2" diameter shock, you are not gaining much (if anything) over your stock shocks. Being that they are pre-set to 3" of lift, I would not put these on anything without a uniball upper control arm as you will max out the upper ball joint as soon as you install them, unless you adjust them down to a 2" lift.

Upper Control Arms - I would not recommend a ball joint upper control arm for your driving situations. Uniball joints allow for more articulation at the joint which equates out to more travel. Also a uniball joint is a stronger joint than a traditional ball joint. If you were to get a set of uniball upper control arms, I would recommend the Icon upper control arms along with their billet uniball cap to prevent excessive dirt and grime getting into the uniball which extends the service life and prevents you from having to constantly clean and lubricate the joint.

 

[MobTuff]

Thanks for the thought out post. Definitely some great information in there. Seems like you're pretty experienced with offroad modifications. What would you recommend for me and my 05 Tundra? I imagine most of your Tundra work is on 2nd gen Tundras? I drive almost everyday off pavement on some pretty terrible terrain. Just looking for something to keep the reliability of the truck up while providing a somewhat smooth ride at normal to slow speeds. Right now with the Bilsteins I'm getting a pretty pronounced "clunk" over large bumps. I have a feeling since I have the Bilsteins at the highest setting I don't have enough droop and they're maxing out their capability. Combined with having the stock UCA's I'm sure the truck is having more than a difficult time everyday. It's also what I bet is breaking these Bilsteins at the weld. I'm wondering if there is an mid/extended travel shock that would fit my needs that I wouldn't have to adjust higher and take advantage of all the travel it has to offer while keeping the truck level.

I'd like to point out a few things:

Hello All,

I would like to clear some of the information posted in this thread in hopes to get everyone on the same page...
A progressive valving stack means that as the shock travels it gets progressively firmer in attempts to slow the travel whether it be up (bump) travel or down (rebound) travel. This is beneficial for those who do use their trucks in high speed, big hole environments...places like Baja, Mexico or other off-road race venues.
In contrast, a digressive valving stack can be thought of as a "daily driver" valving stack. This type of valving is beneficial for typical on-road use with added off road performance. The way a digressive valving stack works is it allows for "stages" of shock travel by being initially firm, softening up, then firming up again in the last inch or so of travel to prevent harsh bottom outs or top outs (full extension).

Icon Shocks - These coilovers are not designed for high speed off-road racing. These coilovers have a digressive valving design, not progressive. Since Icon is a 2.5 diameter shock you will have more damping and cooling ability than the Toytec shock. You can get these coilovers in either an Internal Reservoir (IFP) or External Reservoir (Remote Reservoir) design. With the External Reservoir you can also add their CDC Valve which is their compression adjuster.
Icons can be custom ordered to suit your liking whether that be a heavier spring rate to accommodate heavy front bumpers, winches, etc. We can also have them set up with softer valving. 650lb springs are the standard and can be upgraded to a 700lb spring at an additional charge.

Fox Shocks - Fox has traditionally set up their coilovers with a progressive valving stack. They are primarily an off road racing shock company and that is how they set up their OE Replacement shock line. Fox offers an IFP Shock, Remote Reservoir and Remote Reservoir with DSC Adjusters. Fox is also 2.5 diameter shock you will have more dampening and cooling ability than the Toytec shock.
700lb springs are the norm for. No option for other spring rates. Coils can be ordered separately. No custom valving available.
The DSC (Dual Speed Compression Adjuster) is a nice option because it allows you to control both the slow speed and high speed compression independently.

King Shocks - Same as Fox...progressive valving stack. They are also primarily an off road racing shock company and that is how they set up their OE Replacement shock line. King only offers their coilovers with a remote reservoir; there is an adjustable compression adjuster option. King is also 2.5 diameter shock you will have more dampening and cooling ability than the Toytec shock.
600lb springs are the standard option for King; 700lb springs are an upgrade you can do at no charge. You can request custom valving as well as long as you know exactly what you are after. Again, compression adjusters are an option on these coilovers. In my experience, the King compression adjusters don't make as big of a difference as the Fox and Icon systems. *Just to clarify, I've spoken with two engineers at King today and yesterday and they are saying they use a 650# coil and have an OE replacement shock with an internal reservoir only for the 1st Gen Tundra. Lots of pictures online are showing the wrong product apparently. The part number I'm referring to is 25001-138.*

Toytec - In my opinion these are a glorified Bilstein 5100 shock with a threaded body on it. With that skinny rod end, I would expect the same issues you experienced with the Bilsteins...breakage. Also, since these are a 2" diameter shock, you are not gaining much (if anything) over your stock shocks. Being that they are pre-set to 3" of lift, I would not put these on anything without a uniball upper control arm as you will max out the upper ball joint as soon as you install them, unless you adjust them down to a 2" lift. *This is my exact concern for these shocks. I'm so afraid they have the same issue as the Bilsteins.*

Upper Control Arms - I would not recommend a ball joint upper control arm for your driving situations. Uniball joints allow for more articulation at the joint which equates out to more travel. Also a uniball joint is a stronger joint than a traditional ball joint. If you were to get a set of uniball upper control arms, I would recommend the Icon upper control arms along with their billet uniball cap to prevent excessive dirt and grime getting into the uniball which extends the service life and prevents you from having to constantly clean and lubricate the joint. *Unfortunately Icon does not make any upper control arms for our 1st Gen Tundras. I think you're thinking about 2007 and up. Especially the billet uniball cap ones. The heim joint might be a better/stronger design but at the cost of needing to rebuild the uniball joint almost every year. Seems crazy on a daily offroad driver.*

 

[brianjwilson]

I'd say you're completely right about the bilsteins topping out and clunking. Same with every set of bilsteins I've run on an IFS alplication. That's why I went with extended travel icons (2.5" reservoir with CDC) and uniball upper arm on my tacoma. I don't have a ton of miles on them yet but so far I'm very pleased, I measured an additional 1.5" of down travel in front compared to stock. I set the lift height at 2.5" over stock, which leaves the front end with 3" of down travel from static unloaded ride height. I bet you have less than 2" on your setup with the bilsteins.

Also the valving and construction is much different between the two. The bilsteins severely lack rebound valving. The shocks seemingly do nothing to catch the suspension on the downstroke. They top out easily and very harsh. The icons do not.

As of now I have no complaints about "harsh" ride from the icons. Initially I kept the stock wheels and tires with the icons and the ride improved, to me, in every way. Much better controlled, less body roll, no harsh bottom out or top out, smoother and better controlled on washboard gravel roads, floats over speed bumps and driveway dips etc. Obviously I can't comment about longevity yet. Worst case, you can always throw a set of stock coilovers with spacers up front when the shocks are out for rebuild. But I would expect in your location that someone could rebuild them in a couple days.

I agree about the toytech shocks. Looks like a 5100 with threaded spring mount.


If you want to see the difference in how a bilstein 5100 and icon setup handle the suspension off road, look at YouTube. I don't know how much tundra stuff there is, but try searching tacoma icon suspension and watch videos in the wheel well. Then search tacoma bilstein (or 5100) and look for similar.

 

[scheefdog]

Have you looked at Old Man Emu? I have a friend with them on his 03 Tundra and it handles great. Better than my truck which is nearly identical with the same tires, but mine has 5100s. There are a few places that sell a kit for the 1st Gen Tundra - it consists of the following for the front:
2 x OME2885 Front Coil Springs
2 x 90004 Front Struts

 

[MobTuff]

Have you looked at Old Man Emu? I have a friend with them on his 03 Tundra and it handles great. Better than my truck which is nearly identical with the same tires, but mine has 5100s. There are a few places that sell a kit for the 1st Gen Tundra - it consists of the following for the front:
2 x OME2885 Front Coil Springs
2 x 90004 Front Struts

I did consider the OME suspension. I just thought if I'm going to upgrade the suspension I'd go for something with possibly more travel. They looked like a similar shock to the Bilstiens as well.

I'd say you're completely right about the bilsteins topping out and clunking. Same with every set of bilsteins I've run on an IFS alplication. That's why I went with extended travel icons (2.5" reservoir with CDC) and uniball upper arm on my tacoma. I don't have a ton of miles on them yet but so far I'm very pleased, I measured an additional 1.5" of down travel in front compared to stock. I set the lift height at 2.5" over stock, which leaves the front end with 3" of down travel from static unloaded ride height. I bet you have less than 2" on your setup with the bilsteins.

Also the valving and construction is much different between the two. The bilsteins severely lack rebound valving. The shocks seemingly do nothing to catch the suspension on the downstroke. They top out easily and very harsh. The icons do not.

As of now I have no complaints about "harsh" ride from the icons. Initially I kept the stock wheels and tires with the icons and the ride improved, to me, in every way. Much better controlled, less body roll, no harsh bottom out or top out, smoother and better controlled on washboard gravel roads, floats over speed bumps and driveway dips etc. Obviously I can't comment about longevity yet. Worst case, you can always throw a set of stock coilovers with spacers up front when the shocks are out for rebuild. But I would expect in your location that someone could rebuild them in a couple days.

I agree about the toytech shocks. Looks like a 5100 with threaded spring mount.


If you want to see the difference in how a bilstein 5100 and icon setup handle the suspension off road, look at YouTube. I don't know how much tundra stuff there is, but try searching tacoma icon suspension and watch videos in the wheel well. Then search tacoma bilstein (or 5100) and look for similar.

Thanks for the input. I appreciate the first hand experience. Those Icons with external reservoir and CDC must have set you back. I really wish the shock companies would put out the general specs of the shock so you could compare apples to apples rather than having to hear peoples subjective accounts. King for example has Extended Length (in):19.500 in, Collapsed Length (in):15.320 in, Body Diameter (in):2.500 in. all listed on it's specs. I guess in the end you just have to pull the trigger and see if it works out I guess.

 

[huntsonora]

I have the Old Man Emu kit on mine and I absolutely love it. Look for my build thread on here for more info. It rides great on and off road

 

[rickashay]

I've got these bad boys sitting in my office, waiting for me to gather the parts for my 04' Tundra front end rebuild.


IMG_4652.jpg by Addison Rickaby, on Flickr

I don't have any kind of review of them now (obviously... they aren't on the truck!) but I do run Bilsteins currently. When the Fox's go in I will also be doing 10" Fox 2.0 IFP shocks in the rear and Total Chaos UCA's in the front. I may be of no help now but I should have it all bolted into the truck in a couple weeks hopefully.

 

[character zero]

Thanks for all the input!



I've been following your build. Didn't see you had so many updates, definenitly another tundra build I'll subscribe too. Great truck. Really like what you're doing. Glad to hear you're having good luck with the Toyotec Boss.




I like to hear you find the Kings giving you a good ride. Do you find them good at lower speed rough road travel? Did you ever get your lift sorted out? I was trying to make sense of all the information on your post over at TS here:
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/lifting/294801-need-some-guidance-lift-i-had/
It's pretty late and I think I'll give it another read tomorrow. But any explanation would be great. I completely feel the stiffer ride on the highest adjustment on the Bilsteins. The whole point of their discussion was less travel when you adjust the shock higher causing a rougher ride because you don't have enough droop/travel?




Thanks for the info. Currently going through every forum post I can get my hands on.




Yeah I might be trying to hard for this front lift but I really need a better alternative to these Bilsteins. I'm thinking upgraded UCAs could really help with travel and better articulation. Really enjoy your trip reports by the way and helping us Tundra guys get more exposure on Expo!



At this point I think I've ruled out Icons due to hearing so much about how they're valved for high speed offroad racing.

The Fox's with their DSC adjustments seem really intriguing. I like the idea of being able to adjust both the high speed and low speed compression. But the remote reservoir issues I've seen and being the most expensive option rule them out as well.

I'm down to the Toyotec Boss coilovers or the Kings. I'm a little concerned about the Boss coilovers after calling Toyotec today. The guy on the phone basically said they're just redone bilstein shocks with a coilover design. That weld on the bottom of the shock reminds me of the Bilstiens so much. I really want to like them after hear stories from FJR Colorado and the like. Also being so affordable is very attractive.

I'm now also concerned about the Kings after reading characterzero's post about not getting 2" out of the Kings. My first priority is having the correct travel but I also don't need the rear end sticking up like crazy. Going to call King tomorrow and see how quickly they can get them to me. I just can't help looking at both shocks thinking the extra $200 for the Kings might be worth it. Any other comments are much appreciated.

Sorry, I should have updated that same post. Shop cranked them up and truck is all set where I wanted it to be - right at 2" front & rear! Everything is pretty buttery with them if you are used to trucks. Sure, it isn't as supple as my wife's stock T4R SR5 with wallowy shocks, but that is why I upgraded (my 8yo shocks felt like hers, and I bought this truck to build after having a KDSS equipped T4R).
As for droop/travel, I notice it sometimes but not often. Haven't pulled the trigger on UCAs and don't see doing so for the forseeable future (not in the next 6 months at least). Camburg UCAs would get a little more, IIRC.

Summary: I'd do it all over again, but go with a different shop or install myself. Kings are living up to the hype - very smooth at moderate speed which is how I spend most of my time offroad (ranch roads, etc). Slow/rock crawling they aren't super duper compliant, as they're not made to inch over obstacles and keep the body stable - but there are SAS conversions if that is your thing.