New to trailers. A few basic questions.

[702krawler]

If you don't have a wheel jack on the front and the tongue is too heavy to lift, I'm not sure how else you would do it except the way you did it -- just double check everything is disconnected beforehand and go slow.

 

[Saharicon]

If you don't have a wheel jack on the front and the tongue is too heavy to lift, I'm not sure how else you would do it except the way you did it -- just double check everything is disconnected beforehand and go slow.

Ok, cool thanks!

I was also checking that because some earlier asked if I could pick up the tongue. I realized the first time I tried the back jacks were down hahaha.


Sent from my fancy city machine.

 

[calicamper]

The generally accepted value for tongue weight is 10% of total load. Its generally accepted because nobody has any other imperical data to counter it, and there is no imperical data to support it either.

If the tongue weight is negative (upward lift) it will be an unstable situation and may result in vehicle instability. So you need some positive weight, but the whole point of a trailer is to allow you to place weight on an axle other than the vehicle primary axles. So that goal is to place as much of the load on the trailer axle. If a large portion of the trailer load is being carried on the vehicle rear axle you havent gained anything except space, and the vehicle is likely to protest.

The goal with the tongue is to keep it down (positive) but to not make it (and your vehicle) carry the load. On a smooth surface it will only require minimal weight to keep the tongue positive while on uneven surfaces you will need more. So on a highway trip you could load almost at zero tongue weight (exclusive of aerodynamic loads). Note I said almost. On uneven terrain you need more, but still be able to lift it by hand, maybe 50-100lb. Keep in mind that on rough terrain you will not be going 75mph so the need for lots of weight to keep the tongue down is not huge.

Pay attention to the rear lift while driving and you will get a feel for how its doing. Momentary negative (lift) unloads are not critical.

^ what he says

Also for some details on trailer towing in general. Trailers like to move in a strait line they do not like turning. With that in mind you can understand what happens when you touch the brake while in a turn. The trailer will go from following you happily to trying to exit the turn without you. Regarding Shogun's notes on the tongue weight vs stability nature of the trailer as you move things around like the battery etc. Things like tongue weight and a slight nose down angle to the trailer adds stability to the trailer. Stability is typically tied to speed the higher your speed the more stability you want your trailer set up to have. So if you plan on doing the I5 - I10 escape out of town and driving like all the other crazies at 75+mph not that you would, but if you did? You want more tongue weight ie stability factor for those higher speeds.

You can fool with the trailer while towing to get a sense of its stability nature without going out at 3am and seeing how fast you can go before it gets unhappy.

^ recall my comment that trailers only really like to travel in a strait line? - You can simulate higher speeds by finding a long sweeping curve and run the curve at different speeds then as you approach the apex of the curve give the truck some brakes and see what the trailer does.

For example - lets say your doing 50mph through this nice sweeping curve and you give the truck a light touch on the brake to bleed of some speed and you notice right away the trailer starts to sway a little behind you. This is a little bit of a tell tail on where that stability point sits with the trailer regarding speed. Its perfectly fine doing 50mph maybe even 65mph but you'll probably notice it starting to wag some at 70mph while going down the highway.

Now here is where trailer newbies get into trouble. When your going down I10 your in a bit of a rush etc your pushing that 70mph range and the trailer starts to wag a little but your on cruise control and need to get home etc. That trailer wag actually will build in momentum to the point that it will take you and the trailer clean off the road. The only way to avoid the trailer waging is to slow down back into that speed range where your stability point is happy. Or you pull over and move some weight forward ie more tongue weight so you can do your 70mph rush back home etc.

So back to your question about the truck vs trailer etc. If the trailer is perfectly happy and stable at the speeds you like to run at try reducing the weight on the front end of the trailer a little weight at a time and find a nice sweeping curve you can run at 45mph and 50mph and 60 mph with a light touch on the brake to see if you upset the trailer as your going through the curve with a little brakes applied. If the trailer is still happy and not starting to wag then your weight being pushed back is OK and not going to create drama for you trucking down I5 at 70mph etc. Each trailer is different you just need to play with them and know some of these little stability check tricks to get a sense of where your at regarding the trailers stability point vs speed etc.

Keep in mind if your packing differently each trip you'll need to develop a packing plan more or less for the different types of packing efforts so you know where that happy zone stays etc.

Once you have a good sense of the trailer tongue weight then you can start reviewing your truck suspension options that would best fit your need etc.

 

[Saharicon]

^ what he says

Also for some details on trailer towing in general. Trailers like to move in a strait line they do not like turning. With that in mind you can understand what happens when you touch the brake while in a turn. The trailer will go from following you happily to trying to exit the turn without you. Regarding Shogun's notes on the tongue weight vs stability nature of the trailer as you move things around like the battery etc. Things like tongue weight and a slight nose down angle to the trailer adds stability to the trailer. Stability is typically tied to speed the higher your speed the more stability you want your trailer set up to have. So if you plan on doing the I5 - I10 escape out of town and driving like all the other crazies at 75+mph not that you would, but if you did? You want more tongue weight ie stability factor for those higher speeds.

You can fool with the trailer while towing to get a sense of its stability nature without going out at 3am and seeing how fast you can go before it gets unhappy.

^ recall my comment that trailers only really like to travel in a strait line? - You can simulate higher speeds by finding a long sweeping curve and run the curve at different speeds then as you approach the apex of the curve give the truck some brakes and see what the trailer does.

For example - lets say your doing 50mph through this nice sweeping curve and you give the truck a light touch on the brake to bleed of some speed and you notice right away the trailer starts to sway a little behind you. This is a little bit of a tell tail on where that stability point sits with the trailer regarding speed. Its perfectly fine doing 50mph maybe even 65mph but you'll probably notice it starting to wag some at 70mph while going down the highway.

Now here is where trailer newbies get into trouble. When your going down I10 your in a bit of a rush etc your pushing that 70mph range and the trailer starts to wag a little but your on cruise control and need to get home etc. That trailer wag actually will build in momentum to the point that it will take you and the trailer clean off the road. The only way to avoid the trailer waging is to slow down back into that speed range where your stability point is happy. Or you pull over and move some weight forward ie more tongue weight so you can do your 70mph rush back home etc.

So back to your question about the truck vs trailer etc. If the trailer is perfectly happy and stable at the speeds you like to run at try reducing the weight on the front end of the trailer a little weight at a time and find a nice sweeping curve you can run at 45mph and 50mph and 60 mph with a light touch on the brake to see if you upset the trailer as your going through the curve with a little brakes applied. If the trailer is still happy and not starting to wag then your weight being pushed back is OK and not going to create drama for you trucking down I5 at 70mph etc. Each trailer is different you just need to play with them and know some of these little stability check tricks to get a sense of where your at regarding the trailers stability point vs speed etc.

Keep in mind if your packing differently each trip you'll need to develop a packing plan more or less for the different types of packing efforts so you know where that happy zone stays etc.

Once you have a good sense of the trailer tongue weight then you can start reviewing your truck suspension options that would best fit your need etc.

Wow, thanks man! Thats the kind of information I need!

I will start doing your recommended driving test. I know exactly what you mean about the wag. I passed a guy with a Uhaul once and it looked like the trailer was a pitbull that got ahold of his *** end and was trying to rip it off.

I wanted to avoid that at all cost.

Trailer did seem to tow great besides the softness in the rear. Coming up 395 on the straight I think I hit 65 maybe 67 once or twice. I was mainly at 60 though the whole way. Very good to know about the turns, I had no idea.

We are going to do a small shake down run this weekend around Death Valley. Nothing crazy because Im too nervous to hit anything major yet. Probably go out to Eureka dunes, maybe loop back around into the valley from Big Pine Rd.

Any recommendations for off pavement driving I should know? Nothing crazy yet, the worst I might do is the south pass into Saline Valley. I'm thinking the North Pass is easier though.

 

[calicamper]

Just view the trailer like a new girl friend. Don't get too wild with it take your time fooling with speeds and various packing ie weight distribution etc. For off road stuff just keep in mind those wash board sections beat the living crap out of trailers and campers on vehicles, so plan on taking it slow and first few sections of dirt you might want to take a pit stop and do a little walk around and peek inside to make sure your not shaking major parts loose. I would take a look at the bolts on the suspension parts and make sure you have the right sized sockets so if you do discover something coming loose you can snug it up and not worry about it anymore. Oh and a big one make sure your lug wrench works on the trailer lugs!!! Been there done that flat no big deal we have a spare!! Oh SNAP! the lug wrench doesn't fit the trailer Lugs!! AHHHH CRAP!! HA HA No Bueno

 

[Saharicon]

Just view the trailer like a new girl friend. Don't get too wild with it take your time fooling with speeds and various packing ie weight distribution etc. For off road stuff just keep in mind those wash board sections beat the living crap out of trailers and campers on vehicles, so plan on taking it slow and first few sections of dirt you might want to take a pit stop and do a little walk around and peek inside to make sure your not shaking major parts loose. I would take a look at the bolts on the suspension parts and make sure you have the right sized sockets so if you do discover something coming loose you can snug it up and not worry about it anymore. Oh and a big one make sure your lug wrench works on the trailer lugs!!! Been there done that flat no big deal we have a spare!! Oh SNAP! the lug wrench doesn't fit the trailer Lugs!! AHHHH CRAP!! HA HA No Bueno

Got it! Appreciate all the help. I will let you know how it goes. :smiley_drive: