No Shoulder Strap Woes...

[5Runner]

I posted this thread on the "land cruiser rig" section under the title "seatbelt = new rig" but it is also all about kids and the problems they cause! ha!

I don't know how many of you guys read all these sections (I don't), but I mainly post here in the family section, so I also wanted your opinions too.

Sorry if that's annoying to double post, but I am greedy for your opinions on this one...its a bummer.

Here is a link to the thread, but I will also copy the post in the next post here:
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=696964#post696964

 

[5Runner]

Here is the story/problem

Background:
I have a 3rd gen 4runner that I am very happy to squeeze my family of 5 in. It is our Offroad Expedition Rig. Use: 4 night camping trips, take highway to trails, rock crawl to primitive camp. Not a daily driver. See signature for some mods.

Problem:
My smallest child (of the 3) will be ready to move out of his 5-point harness in about a year (thats pushing it). It hit me like a ton of bricks and has really messed up my plans...there's no shoulder belt on the center rear seat in the 4runner... oh no!

From everything I have read it is absolutely dangerous and harmful to put a child in a seat with only a lap belt. My oldest/strongest just turned eight, so a small collosion would break her in half if in that seat.

I am totally in shock of this finding. I researched and searched for my 4runner when I bought it three years ago. I guess at that time I just never imagined my kids growing up...I can't believe I didn't think about this then.

So. I see two options:

1) Weld a complete roll cage/roof rack/new cargo kitchen out of steel, and install a 3-point seatbelt in the center seat. I would need to rebuild the kitchen and roof rack because my cargo space and storage will change with the additional supports for the seatbelt. This will likely require additional gear on the roof, and I already have plans for a custom roof rack/box. There's more details, but you get the idea...MOD THE 4RUNNER.

2) Accept the mistake, sell the runner and start my build over with a 100 series land cruiser (years 99, 2000 ish) The 100 has the center shoulder strap and a V8. We are about 2,000+ lbs over stock weight in the runner, including mods, gear, people, dog, water, food...all our stuff. So the 4runner already struggles to get us up some serious mountain hill climbs. In 4low, low and struggling to the top of a pass in CO has been sketchy a few times. The V8 LC would give us more power...but I "could" also swap a Lexus V8 into the runner when my V6 dies (that was the original long term plan) But...is that sensible, considering the seat belt mod that is also required now. The runner is also packed tight and we are very selective about what we can bring. We don't use a stove for example, its all cooked on the fire.

So...It seems to me that the horrible sad truth is that I bought the wrong rig and should move to an LC. Oh the pain and money that will cost me to get where I am now with my runner...sniff...tear...

I would LOVE to hear from you LC guys/gals and what you think. My 4runner is so nimble and graceful winding on the narrow CO trails. I need encouraging words about the 100 LC. It seems it will make a great offroad expedition rig when I get it built, but what am I not thinking of? I know that the runner will get tight in, say, 6 years when I have a 10, 12 and 14 year old.

Okay, I am rambling...hope some of you even read this whole post. I am a bit emotionally bummed about this. I was having a custom belly skid built for my runner next week, until this realization came to light. Now I feel totally consumed by this problem. I do ALOT of camping/mountain day trips with the family, so I need to get a plan in place so a year from now (max) I am back in good expedition shape with SAFE children.

HELP...

 

[dms1]

I don't have kids or a van or anything, but do vans and Ford Expedition type vehicles offer shoulder seat belts for the middle seats? I don't ever remember seeing any.

You might be better off coming up with a way to add a shoulder harness to the middle seat.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

1) Look into getting a child seat with a higher weight rating. Try a Recaro or something.

2) Rollbar with bucket seats for the kids and 5 point harnesses.

3) I rode around with a lapbelt when I was growing up. I'm still here.

 

[5Runner]

1) Look into getting a child seat with a higher weight rating. Try a Recaro or something.

2) Rollbar with bucket seats for the kids and 5 point harnesses.

3) I rode around with a lapbelt when I was growing up. I'm still here.

#1 only buys me more time to keep building a rig that may not work in the end, but is a thought

#3 Were you ever in a serious automobile accident during the years with a lap belt?

I also rolled around, wrestled and would even lay up-side down with our feet where our heads should be when my sister and I were growing up and on long road trips. (I seriously question what my parents were thinking). I am still around too...but never experienced a wreck. That is the problem with using that train of thought.

Thanks for the ideas, though!

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Did your generation of trucks ever have a center 3 point? Maybe you could swap seats.

Otherwise if you are very serious about this, yes, it's a problem. Your only choice is to sell the truck, or retrofit it with a rollbar and 3 racing seats in the back. No small undertaking, but otherwise it could be your overall safest option. That would be safer that another truck with 3 points. However, you should know, that if you encounter police who are really sticklers for the rules, a racing 5-point is not DOT approved, and you could get a ticket for unbelted kids.

 

[overlander]

There are several low cost options on the market to address rear lap belt only seats for toddlers and young kids, that are fully legally compliant.

The E-Z on 86Y harness is one example http://www.ezonpro.com/products/familyVehicle/86yHarness.shtml

Here's a resource: http://www.thecarseatlady.com/booster_seats/booster_seats_8.html

I might be looking into this as well in my Defender, when my toddler gets a little older.

No need to change out the rig.

 

[The Adam Blaster]

My vote would be to buy a larger vehicle. (That's always my vote though, so take it with a grain of salt.)

My rationale behind that line of thought is this:
In a few years when your kids start getting into their teens and close to the size of an adult, it won't be comfortable for all 3 of them to sit in the back of the 4Runner. After you've built the roll cage, or made other alternative modifications to the interior to safely transport them now, the overall interior room will be that much smaller.

If you keep making mods to a rig that you know will be too small in the coming years, you're kind of wasting time and money aren't you?

 

[Hltoppr]

That 86Y harness looks like it would work great, and the only mod may be adding a tie down point in the rear-middle floor.

 

[rezdiver]

you may still need a harness bar with that harness if it is mounted to the rear floor. i believe you can mount it without a harness bar if it is mounted 20 degrees to horizontal behind the shoulder.

in the pictures it shows it mounted to the floor but i do not see how that passes safety as it creates a downwards crush on the spine with a soft seat.

 

[azxplorer]

There are several low cost options on the market to address rear lap belt only seats for toddlers and young kids, that are fully legally compliant.

Good idea by Overlander. You might consider a High-back booster seat, with integrated multi-point harness, used in conjunction with with a top tether (very important). Your only mod would be to fab an anchor point in the floor behind the rear seat for the tether, if there is not one already there.