Planning out a Teardrop

[JustJKing]

So I am currently planning phase for building an off road Teardrop trailer. I am inspired by the Moby1 XTR, not only does it look ************, but with the RTT I can shelter my family of 6.

I am trying to work through somethings and I was hoping you all could provide some insight.

One thing is wether to go with either an aluminum or a steel frame. I have been trying to do my research and I am not entirely convinced one way or the other. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. With aluminum you get a lighter weight frame that doesn't corrode, but its more expensive and you have to bolt it together. I do know that welding aluminum is not only difficult but you also degrade the strength of the aluminum because you are killing the temper. The only way to get the strength back is to retemper the entire frame after welding which would be prohibitively expensive. So if I were to bolt a frame together do I still have to worry about fatigue issues? Schutt Industries makes aluminum frames for their Xventure trailers. Not only that they also make aluminum trailers for the military so they must be doing something right.

Steel frames are cheaper to make and you can weld it up easily. But you deal with corrosion issues and weight.

If you had a choice, money not being the driving factor, what would you choose?

Also why are all teardrops made out of wood? Or at least it seems like that way to me. Have you seen other materials used? One thing I was thinking about doing was making an internal "roll cage" like structure that I would then bolt on fiber glass/nomex core composite panels to. Again not only would it be lighter but it would also work well to insulate the teardrop. I believe it would also be strong enough and flexible enough to take the punches that offloading would throw at it.

Any thoughts on that?

Another thing that I had read about, and maybe this is a discussion for another thread, is the tendency for the trailer to essentially act as an anchor when you are going over difficult terrain. How many of you have had issues pulling your trailer over difficult terrain, such as rock crawling, steep hills with loose dirt, sand, mud. Is there any good techniques to get through, besides just giving up and turning around. How often have you actually run into something so bad that you had to turn around? How often have you gotten stuck because of the trailer bogging you down? When you have gotten stuck, how did you get unstuck?

Building a teardrop is something I really want to do, I just have so many questions rattling around my brain, so I am sorry for the shotgun blast of questions. I really appreciate any insights you might have.

Cheers :beer:

 

[drgrenthum]

If no money was no object i would go aluminum. Right now, unfortunately, i am building a trailer out of steel. If you are using box tubing like most of us are when building, then i wouldnt worry about the strength. My 7x14 dual axle steel enclosed trailer uses z channel for the back 2/3 of the trailer and it is rated for 6000lbs, three times what most of us will be carrying. If you can do that with z channel surely you can do it aluminum tubing, and as you mentioned there are companies that do. If you can buy aluminum heavy equipment haulers, then one of our rigs is easy peasy.

If it was my tear drop, i would skin it in aluminum. People do lots of different things for different reasons, most of which relates to cost, availabilty of materials and ease of fabrication. I like the looks of the teardrops in wood with wood siding, but i am more of a build and forget type of guy so again, aluminum.

I mig aluminum and hate the way it looks welded, I would tig it if i could but it would take alot longer to weld up. I have never tempered anything and have yet to have anything fail, but have only being doing it for 5 years so that doesnt mean a whole lot.

As for steel rusting. You can buy lots of coatings to help prevent rust. How long will you have it though? 20years? Plenty of cars on the road older than that, with far less rust prevention. If something develops you just need to make sure you take care of it before it gets too bad.

Have yet to go off road with a trailer, but like any offroad adventure, have a winch, and try not to go solo.

dthum

 

[fireball]

Check out the expedition Overland Videos for good information on towing a trailer in some pretty sticky situations. I too am planning/designing a teardrop right now and have conceded that for our uses it'll be dirt roads and light easy trails only.

 

[matthewp]

Let me see if I can add my experiences into this...

So I am currently planning phase for building an off road Teardrop trailer. I am inspired by the Moby1 XTR, not only does it look ************, but with the RTT I can shelter my family of 6.

I am trying to work through somethings and I was hoping you all could provide some insight.

One thing is wether to go with either an aluminum or a steel frame. I have been trying to do my research and I am not entirely convinced one way or the other. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. With aluminum you get a lighter weight frame that doesn't corrode, but its more expensive and you have to bolt it together. I do know that welding aluminum is not only difficult but you also degrade the strength of the aluminum because you are killing the temper. The only way to get the strength back is to retemper the entire frame after welding which would be prohibitively expensive. So if I were to bolt a frame together do I still have to worry about fatigue issues? Schutt Industries makes aluminum frames for their Xventure trailers. Not only that they also make aluminum trailers for the military so they must be doing something right.

Steel frames are cheaper to make and you can weld it up easily. But you deal with corrosion issues and weight.

If you had a choice, money not being the driving factor, what would you choose?

Money not being a consideration, I would have gone with aluminum, but... Cost was a consideration! My steel rolling frame cost $3000 to be built from scratch by a professional fabricator. The same fabricator told me I would be looking at around $6K to do the same thing in aluminum. I didn't see the cost vs. the weight saving being worth the price hike. Jim65wagon on this forum is using a custom built trailer chassis from a trailer builder. I'm not sure if it's bolted or welded but he may be able to chime in. As for corrosion, unless you wanted the look of a non-painted frame, the steel will be easier to keep a coat of paint on.

Also why are all teardrops made out of wood? Or at least it seems like that way to me. Have you seen other materials used? One thing I was thinking about doing was making an internal "roll cage" like structure that I would then bolt on fiber glass/nomex core composite panels to. Again not only would it be lighter but it would also work well to insulate the teardrop. I believe it would also be strong enough and flexible enough to take the punches that offloading would throw at it.

Any thoughts on that?

Why wood? it's fairly stout, conventional in it's construction use requirements and easy & inexpensive to obtain. A lot of folks skin their teardrops with metal over the wood (Jim65wagon did exactly that), and it seems there is a good size market for all you need at reasonable prices. I used wood for my upper body and fiberglassed the seams. I chose wood because it was easy to work with and everything I needed was readily available. I have seen teardrops using a ply/foam composite but never for off road purposes. I would be in doubt as to the durability of a foam composite without a metal frame. Considerations do have to be made for the flexing of off-road travel.

Another thing that I had read about, and maybe this is a discussion for another thread, is the tendency for the trailer to essentially act as an anchor when you are going over difficult terrain. How many of you have had issues pulling your trailer over difficult terrain, such as rock crawling, steep hills with loose dirt, sand, mud. Is there any good techniques to get through, besides just giving up and turning around. How often have you actually run into something so bad that you had to turn around? How often have you gotten stuck because of the trailer bogging you down? When you have gotten stuck, how did you get unstuck?

I have learned the had way that you need/want proper recovery points on the front and rear of the trailer. Also, an added benefit of tires to match the vehicle is the easier ability to roll over obstacles with the larger tires than usually found on trailers. When you off-road with a trailer, you must remember that you now have two sets of tracks to manage and deal with, especially on tight corners!

 

[JustJKing]

If no money was no object i would go aluminum. Right now, unfortunately, i am building a trailer out of steel. If you are using box tubing like most of us are when building, then i wouldnt worry about the strength. My 7x14 dual axle steel enclosed trailer uses z channel for the back 2/3 of the trailer and it is rated for 6000lbs, three times what most of us will be carrying. If you can do that with z channel surely you can do it aluminum tubing, and as you mentioned there are companies that do. If you can buy aluminum heavy equipment haulers, then one of our rigs is easy peasy.

That is a good point. It shouldn't be all that difficult to figure out. Just trying to figure out if its worth it in the end. do the gains out way the cons.

If it was my tear drop, i would skin it in aluminum. People do lots of different things for different reasons, most of which relates to cost, availabilty of materials and ease of fabrication. I like the looks of the teardrops in wood with wood siding, but i am more of a build and forget type of guy so again, aluminum.

First of all an aluminum skin is just that, a skin, I imagine that you would still have a wood structure underneath. A friend of mine says that aluminum sided trailers are susceptible to warping, and that kinda makes sense. A wooden structure would be able to take a certain amount of flex, say from a hard hit on the trail, and not dent or bend. A thin aluminum skin would quickly dent or bend even if it was glued to a wooden structure.

As for steel rusting. You can buy lots of coatings to help prevent rust. How long will you have it though? 20years? Plenty of cars on the road older than that, with far less rust prevention. If something develops you just need to make sure you take care of it before it gets too bad.

Again good point. I am not necessarily trying to make an heirloom, that needs to last hundreds of years. The rust prevention just needs to be done right and it should last.

Money not being a consideration, I would have gone with aluminum, but... Cost was a consideration! My steel rolling frame cost $3000 to be built from scratch by a professional fabricator. The same fabricator told me I would be looking at around $6K to do the same thing in aluminum. I didn't see the cost vs. the weight saving being worth the price hike. Jim65wagon on this forum is using a custom built trailer chassis from a trailer builder. I'm not sure if it's bolted or welded but he may be able to chime in. As for corrosion, unless you wanted the look of a non-painted frame, the steel will be easier to keep a coat of paint on.

It would be interesting to hear Jim65wagon's thoughts on using a welded aluminum frame, if that's what he is using.

Why wood? it's fairly stout, conventional in it's construction use requirements and easy & inexpensive to obtain. A lot of folks skin their teardrops with metal over the wood (Jim65wagon did exactly that), and it seems there is a good size market for all you need at reasonable prices. I used wood for my upper body and fiberglassed the seams. I chose wood because it was easy to work with and everything I needed was readily available. I have seen teardrops using a ply/foam composite but never for off road purposes. I would be in doubt as to the durability of a foam composite without a metal frame. Considerations do have to be made for the flexing of off-road travel.

Wood does make sense, just curious if people used other materials successfully.

 

[matthewp]

It would be interesting to hear Jim65wagon's thoughts on using a welded aluminum frame, if that's what he is using.

here's the link to his build thread: The CrowsWing - Offroad Teardrop Trailer

 

[libarata]

I have seen wood, steel, aluminum, and combination of all three. So long as everything is plumb, and properly constructed and reinforced, all should end well as long as you refrain from ramping the thing at 50mph over boulders.

 

[optimusprime]

Contrary to popular belief Aluminium does corrode,plus it work hardens as well, so thats another point to note.

 

[JustJKing]

here's the link to his build thread: The CrowsWing - Offroad Teardrop Trailer

I have read through his build. Very impressive trailer. So yes he does have an aluminum frame that was welded up. I wonder if the company he bought the frame from retempered the aluminum after the welding.

Contrary to popular belief Aluminium does corrode,plus it work hardens as well, so thats another point to note.

True is does corrode but no in the way steel does, and it its much easier to prevent it from corroding out.

 

[Titanpat57]

Something that seems to elude a lot of us is how the trailer changes after a year or two of use.

What seems like a good idea at the time changes later.

I think lots of thought needs to go into the frame and top. On the next build I will lay out every square inch of the frame openings for water tank and batteries....plus a few other goodies.

Good luck with your quest and your build.
And

 

[sgltrk]

Alternative to welding/bolting aluminum...

There is an alternative to welding or bolting an aluminum frame together. The link below is on the basic advantages of adhesive bonding.

V=http://www.loctite.co.uk/news-4082_adhesives-are-not-second-best-6237_UKE_HTML.htm

Just a thought,
sgltrk

 

[fireball]

@titanpat - just saw the sig line "planning stages of Roam 2" What an exciting cliffhanger! Any early previews as to what the big changes might be? Can't wait to check it out in VT!

 

[Titanpat57]

Thanks fireball...looking forward to meeting you as well!

Second one will have a pop up roof, pull out kitchen, push out bed pod, interior table and seating for two (that converts to single bed), an interior bathroom. I'm getting tired of spending two hours setting up camp by myself. I also really like the fold up RTT on the tongue idea I've seen a few times.

I'd like to really incorporate some new foam core products and/or fiberglass, and all aluminum skin.....so I'm really watching some of the newer build threads (like this) intently.

 

[jim65wagon]

What can I say? I've never read a thread where my name was mentioned more than in this one. Haven't decided if that's a good thing or bad. I will try to address some points or any questions that may come up.

Jim65wagon is using a custom built trailer chassis from a trailer builder. I'm not sure if it's bolted or welded

It is welded. And no they did not retemper after welding. While the tongue did have it's issues (read the thread thoroughly) the welds are not the issue but rather the strength and thickness and type of aluminum used for the high stress areas of a trailer.

Why wood? it's fairly stout, conventional in it's construction use requirements and easy & inexpensive to obtain. A lot of folks skin their teardrops with metal over the wood(Jim65wagon did exactly that)

It's light weight for it's strength, and it's easy to work with. It makes a very solid construction when built correctly. And some woods are extremely beautiful with nothing more than some sanding and a nice clear coat. The walls are skinned with aluminum, that was to obtain a certain look to the trailer and to protect the wood. We built with wood because that is the product we know. If you are a welder and know metal there is no problem building one with a metal framework, like Skersfan's builds. There is also at least one person on the TNTTT site building an offroad foamy. Done correctly I don't see any reason for it not to be just as sturdy as any other design.

As for the durability of the aluminum trailer....give me ten years. Of the 8000 miles we've logged on this trailer only a few have really been off road, and probably less than 1000 have even been forest or gravel roads. That's not to say that some of the freeways and backroads around here aren't extremely poorly maintained, ie potholed nightmares. I am very happy with the aluminum frame and wood construction that we have now.

Our second trailer is currently in the design phase. At this point it is slated to have a steel frame, but only because of it's price point and ease of welding. The body of the trailer will still be wood skinned with aluminum sheet.

 

[JustJKing]

Something that seems to elude a lot of us is how the trailer changes after a year or two of use.

What seems like a good idea at the time changes later.

I think lots of thought needs to go into the frame and top. On the next build I will lay out every square inch of the frame openings for water tank and batteries....plus a few other goodies.

Good luck with your quest and your build.

I totally understand what you mean. There have been so many projects that I have done that turn out way different then how I imagined, only sometimes for the better. I like that idea of laying everything first, getting a really good sense of where everything should be. I saw Jim65wagon, just wanted to keep your name alive and well in this thread , mention in another build about doing a full size mockup out of cardboard. That is a most excellent idea. I am going to try to do some modeling work on the design this weekend. I will post some pictures if I am happy with the results. I am still working on the overall shape. I like the Benroy shape but the Kenskill is really nice. I could even design the curved front of the Kenskill as a rockslider.

Second one will have a pop up roof, pull out kitchen, push out bed pod, interior table and seating for two (that converts to single bed), an interior bathroom. I'm getting tired of spending two hours setting up camp by myself. I also really like the fold up RTT on the tongue idea I've seen a few times.

I'd like to really incorporate some new foam core products and/or fiberglass, and all aluminum skin.....so I'm really watching some of the newer build threads (like this) intently.

Wow, your second trailer will be a legit transformer. You should call it Optimus Prime, or Decepticon more because its will be deceptively small when folded up. That will be really cool to see how it comes out.

I haven't read through your build thread yet, will do that very soon, but I find it interesting that it takes you 2 hours to set up. Why does it take so long? A quick setup is what I am hoping for and why we looking to do the teardrop with RTT. right now we just have a tent on the ground and have to pull everything out of our little utility style trailer. It takes us two hours right now just to setup and about that long to break down, way too long if you plan on moving from site to site each day.

An RTT on the tongue, that's an interesting idea, I have not seen that yet.

I like the idea of exploring other materials than wood, more to be unique but also light weight and strong. I have experience designing with carbon fiber but that might be going a little far, at least for this build. One thing that will become apparent is that I am looking to do some more extreme offroading with this thing. My goal will be able to do the Rubicon trail with the trailer. This trailer will have to be rather capable and hold up to some serious abuse.

What can I say? I've never read a thread where my name was mentioned more than in this one. Haven't decided if that's a good thing or bad. I will try to address some points or any questions that may come up.

I believe your name is mentioned more out of reverence than anything, although you did set the bar a little high. Its almost intimidating the amount of work and detail you put into your trailer. Thanks for the excellent build thread! Very helpful.

It is welded. And no they did not retemper after welding. While the tongue did have it's issues (read the thread thoroughly) the welds are not the issue but rather the strength and thickness and type of aluminum used for the high stress areas of a trailer.

As for the durability of the aluminum trailer....give me ten years. Of the 8000 miles we've logged on this trailer only a few have really been off road, and probably less than 1000 have even been forest or gravel roads. That's not to say that some of the freeways and backroads around here aren't extremely poorly maintained, ie potholed nightmares. I am very happy with the aluminum frame and wood construction that we have now.

I am glad to hear that. Not sure I will wait 10 years before I hear the final verdict .

It's light weight for it's strength, and it's easy to work with. It makes a very solid construction when built correctly. And some woods are extremely beautiful with nothing more than some sanding and a nice clear coat. The walls are skinned with aluminum, that was to obtain a certain look to the trailer and to protect the wood. We built with wood because that is the product we know. If you are a welder and know metal there is no problem building one with a metal framework, like Skersfan's builds. There is also at least one person on the TNTTT site building an offroad foamy. Done correctly I don't see any reason for it not to be just as sturdy as any other design.

So many build threads to work through. This is really great. I like the way Skersfan made the frame to the camper portion out of metal. That way you could use a light, not quite as strong as 3/4 plywood material, to build out the sides and roof.

Our second trailer is currently in the design phase. At this point it is slated to have a steel frame, but only because of it's price point and ease of welding. The body of the trailer will still be wood skinned with aluminum sheet.

I am looking forward to see what you are coming up with next. Any clues on what you will do differently? Are you going to a steel frame solely for the price and ease of welding?

Thanks everyone for your inputs. Hopefully I can give you all a little more meat on what I am planning soon than just asking questions.

Cheers :beer: