Point 65N Sea Cruiser

[Tmcgahe2]

I've been looking for a good touring kayak for a 2 week trip a friend and I are planning for the summer. I was trying to keep it around $1,500 and the kayak had to be at least 16feet & have ample dry space. And I stumbled upon this kayak. So far the only information I've found is from the Point 65N website. I guess being made in Sweden they are kind of hard to find in the US. What drew me to this kayak was that it had a rudder/skeg combo. I've never used them together so if anyone has had any experiences with that I'd like to know how it was. I can't find any dealers in Georgia, but looks like there is a dealer in Saint Petersburg, FL which is about an eight hour one way drive so I'd like to find out as much as I can before I use the gas.

Any help appreciated,
-Tim

 

[Nullifier]

Well first off I have no direct experience with that kayak brand or model. I can however say that building a boat with both a rudder and a skeg is a disaster in my mind. First off skegs and rudders have advantages and disadvantages. Having both doubles you disadvantages but adds really nothing in the way of performance. This is gimmicky and very expensive. I'd rather see you buy a boat that offers quality and proper design rather then an overload of expensive features that offer no benfit. Remember in order to add features and maintain pricepoint you have to take away something. It is usually quality.

First thing is to understand is what a skeg is and what a rudder is and what each one can do for you. A skeg is a fin set into the hull of the yak parallel to the keel line. A control cableof some kind is used to raise and lower the skeg. Depending on wind conditions you can adjust the depth of the skeg to prevent weathercocking. These are the simplest in the way of design and seen as the most reliable form of steering directional assistance.

A rudder is a complex system that uses control cables set to your foot braces that comeout the stern of the kayak and attach to a complex rudder assembly. the assembly not only uses the cables attached to the foot pegs for steering control but also need another deck line to deploy and retract the blade from the water. once deplyed you can push one of your feet forward to steer the kayak left or right to compensate for windage. keep in mind that this comes at the cost of firm foot braces. since cables stretch and have play this can hinder other techniques. rudders generally have the most negative affect on performance but have a smaller learning curve which explains their popularity.

Now as far as maintanece the skeg wins. one cable and skeg fits in housing inside the hull allowing it to stay tucked away when not in use and not catching the wind when not needed. A rudder is always exposed when not in use both to objects around it to get damaged but the wind as well making you deploy the rudder in moderate winds where it may not have been needed if the boat was not equiped with one. Plus you need to maintain the rudder tracks and cables and deck lines from stretching.

rudders and skegs will each add about 200-250 to the cost of you kayak so if you have a boat with both that is 500 or 1/3 of your 1500 kayak.

skegs add about 3 lbs and rudders about 9 in your case they will add about 11lbs to you kayak. this is probably a 20% wieght increase which is substantial.

Finally there is that thing called warranty. how will you deal with any problems that come up if A your closes dealer is 9 hours away and B the manufacturer is thousands of miles away across international waters?

FOr what it is worth from a guy who has worked for canoe/kayak manufacturer is get a boat with a decent size dealer network. Then spend your money on on features not gimmicks. there is a reason why you do not see other boats offering skegs and rudders. It is one or the other.

My suggestion for a composite kayak in the 1500 range is to watch craigslist and paddling.net also keep bugging your local paddlesports shops they will be getting tradeins regularly and also your local paddling clubs.

A good brand to look for is Impex they are more ecomnomical then say necky, wilderness, P&H, current designs, Seaward, etc. They spend there time in the lamination area not the creature comforts but you can add a $30 seat pad from seair sports and another 30 on a better back band and get a boat that has all the same basic features and is built with 95% the build quality as the most state of the art kayak builder on the market.

 

[Tmcgahe2]

Just the post I was looking for. Thank you sir.

Yes I completely agree with a skeg/rudder combo being a disaster. I have used both, but never together on the same boat. I have a 16 foot Perception Captiva with a rudder so I do have plenty of experience using a rudder. My skeg experience is some what limited. I have only used one once.

I just happened to stumble on the Point 65 Sea Cruiser on the internet but had no other information. I too questioned Point 65N's quality at their MSRP. I am glad you brought up the warranty point, that was something I had not considered at the time, which is now a priority for me to consider when looking for a kayak.

My local kayak shop & kayak club are not really an option for me. Having my brother and a good friend work there and hearing the things they have told me, they will not be getting my money. (another story)
This was another reason I resorted to outside dealers.
I will keep an eye out on ebay & craiglist though.

I have been eyeing a Wilderness Systems Tempest for quite awhile now. I know its well out of my price range, but who knows one might pop up. Do you have any experience with this boat? I just know of Wilderness Systems quality. I love my Pungo, its been through everything and back.

Thanks again for your help,
-Tim

 

[Ursa Minor]

More background

disclaimer: like Nullifier, I am part of the kayaking industry.

Point 65 is headquartered in Sweden, the price reflects boats made in China.

For your price point, I agree that your best bet is used, you'll save enough over new to pay for shipping. Depending on where you want to take your trip, you might also look at renting although you won't have as good a feel for the boat when you start out.

I think a rudder + skeg is overkill, the hull shape determines which is is the best, if you have a rudder already it serves the same function as a skeg when amidships.

The topic of skeg or rudder is a long one, but if you're a beginner up to intermediate in skill, I recommend a rudder when touring. Here's my rationale; if you are going camp to camp on a long trip, the rudder provides easier course control over long paddling days, rather than paddling "on edge".

cheers
John

 

[Streakerfreak]

The topic of skeg or rudder is a long one, but if you're a beginner up to intermediate in skill, I recommend a rudder when touring. Here's my rationale; if you are going camp to camp on a long trip, the rudder provides easier course control over long paddling days, rather than paddling "on edge".

cheers
John

Ah, see I am in the other boat when it comes to the topic of rudders. I always cautioned my customers to think twice about getting a boat with a rudder if you’re just starting out (most people just beginning are not going on long trips anyways). Here is my rational. Rudders do fail and if you are someone who has relied on a rudder since the start you will have a difficult time controlling the kayak with out the proper knowledge and skill to do so. I have never actually used the rudder on mine. But that is just my feeling; other guides and kayakers have different feelings on the subject. Besides put a rudder on later is the same price as getting one already on it. If a customer still wanted a rudder and would caution them to take some classes and/or practice with the boat before ever dropping that rudder.

Anyways, I have not heard of that company before and if its made in China then just look at something else. Craigslist is usually the best solution to getting a cheap boat. I lucked out and got our boats for $1,500 all together due to my job. I have and love my Wilderness Tsunami 140 and my fiancé has a nice Necky. Eventually we will upgrade to big Kayaks.