Prescott National Forest - Equestrians vs. mt bikes

[Christophe Noel]

This will serve as a lesson in what NOT to do in terms of playing nice with the other forest users.

Recently the Back Country Horsemen of Central Arizona submitted a proposal to remove all mountain bikes from non-motorized trails in the Prescott National Forest, with that same initiative soon to be delivered to the Cocconino and Tonto forest offices. The Prescott National forest has an emmense network of multi-use trails used and maintained by hikers and mountain bikers alike, and now the BCHCA wants bikes...gone. What this has done is put all mountain bikers on the defense, and while most are reasonable people, a few riders have been outraged by this and I'm sure won't be all too pleasant on the subject. The equestrian crowd that may have at one time been a unified front is now fractured as this initiative does not represent the collective opinion of the equestrian user group.

In short, a fight is a brewing and with the mountain bike community growing at an unprecidented rate, it looks like the equestrian community is already on the losing end of the stick and this silly proposal will only expedite their demise.

I'm preaching to the choir here, but going to war against any one user group is never a good idea.

 

[timh]

Alway's makes me scratch my head when one group thinks another should not be allowed to use the land that belongs to everyone????

Personally, I have experienced arrogant equestrians who have given me the evil eye for mtn. biking, 4 wheeling, and riding my atv. I have no problem with them but when it comes down to bikes or horses, the trail damage speaks for itself!

Can't we all just get along someday?

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

I think what would help is if folks really got training regarding multi use trails.

Tread Lightly! principles call for EVERYONE to yield to horses (due to the fact that they are live animals and can be unpredictable. Most folks don't realize that horses see things magnified.
If you come upon one, you should:

1) Always stay downhill from a horse. Horses see unknowns uphill as predators and things uphill seem even more magnified (larger than life).

2) If wearing a helmet, you should always remove the helmet (making you more human to a horse).

3) You should always speak softly to a horse to ease the horses sense of fear.

If more would practice these principles, I think the equestrian folks would drop their fight.

BTW: I am not a horse person, nor have I ever been.

D

 

[scarysharkface]

The biggest problem is that equestrian groups are usually very well funded and have good connections compared to the rest of us.

John

 

[MotoDave]

Here in SoCal, the horse groups have a huge amount of power, and seem dead set of not letting anyone (including hikers) enjoy what should be open access, multi-use trails. Unfortunately they are all rich, well connected people, and have a lot of power around here, so more often than not they get their way.

As a mountain biker, I have to say I've seen way more damage caused to my local trails by horses than by bikes. Within the MTB community, its common knowledge that after a rain the trails need a few weeks to dry out, as riding them when they are soggy and soft causes a lot of damage and erosion. It seems like every time I head out after letting the trails dry out for a few weeks there all of the trails are absolutely destroyed by 6" deep hoof prints. I've also never met any horse owners on any of the trial maintenance days oput on by the park service, on these same trails that I see riders on every time I am out biking.

I in no way want to ban horse riders from these trails, but I see absolutely no reason they can't get along with everyone else.

 

[timh]

I think what would help is if folks really got training regarding multi use trails.

Tread Lightly! principles call for EVERYONE to yield to horses (due to the fact that they are live animals and can be unpredictable. Most folks don't realize that horses see things magnified.
If you come upon one, you should:

1) Always stay downhill from a horse. Horses see unknowns uphill as predators and things uphill seem even more magnified (larger than life).

2) If wearing a helmet, you should always remove the helmet (making you more human to a horse).

3) You should always speak softly to a horse to ease the horses sense of fear.

If more would practice these principles, I think the equestrian folks would drop their fight.

BTW: I am not a horse person, nor have I ever been.

D

#1 & 2 are very intersting points that I had never realized. I have always tried to be curteous but I never knew those things could also cause a problem. Maybe instead of using their money to kick everyone else out they should start an awareness campaign and work to educate others.

 

[gabepari]

In my experience, the horse people that make a stink would be the same people making the stink if they happen to be hikers, bikers or any other mode of destruction.

It's not their chosen mode of transportation that makes them an A-hat, it's THEM. For the most part, all horsemen I've come across are THE most courteous and friendly on the trail. They offer to dismount and allow my kids to pet the horse, they pose for pictures with my daughter and the horse.

This is just like any other clash, it's not the horse, it's the ************** on the horse. Unfortunately, all too often, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Gabe

 

[Verde Rat]

Age old battle

I’ve grown up Mt. biking the Prescott trails, and this is an age old battle. In fact I can account for a number of times when I have found large logs dragged into the middle of a trail immediately after a blind corner. Typical this is done by a rogue horseback rider in an effort to slowdown Mt. bikers, and for those of you that have ridden down Spruce Mt. I don’t need to tell you how dangerous those logs can be!

That said, whenever I cross paths with a horseback rider I always make an effort to stop and give the rider plenty of room to pass. I understand that horses can be skittish around Mt. bikers and I don’t want anyone to get hurt on my account.

 

[ttora4runner]

I think what would help is if folks really got training regarding multi use trails.

Tread Lightly! principles call for EVERYONE to yield to horses (due to the fact that they are live animals and can be unpredictable. Most folks don't realize that horses see things magnified.
If you come upon one, you should:

1) Always stay downhill from a horse. Horses see unknowns uphill as predators and things uphill seem even more magnified (larger than life).

2) If wearing a helmet, you should always remove the helmet (making you more human to a horse).

3) You should always speak softly to a horse to ease the horses sense of fear.

If more would practice these principles, I think the equestrian folks would drop their fight.

BTW: I am not a horse person, nor have I ever been.

D

Good points again.

That said, whenever I cross paths with a horseback rider I always make an effort to stop and give the rider plenty of room to pass. I understand that horses can be skittish around Mt. bikers and I don’t want anyone to get hurt on my account.

That's what I've normally done.

 

[craig333]

Only run into a few horses on Jeep trails but I always pull over and turn off the engine, smile and wave. Never been yelled at yet.

 

[Stumpalump]

I always pull over and kill the engine also. Especially on the dirt bike. Those fools don't wear a helmet and I don't want to watch them bust their skull. They seem for the most part unfreindly. Horses rip up the ground and cause more erosion than anything. They do way more damage than a moutain bike and even more than my Honda XR400. The worst part is that they don't even stay on the trails. The ground gets riped up 18' on each side of some of them. I got to where I can't stand them but they have the big bucks to sway polititians so I say be nice to them and kill your engine or stop your Mt. bike for them to pass.

 

[Christophe Noel]

This really has been an unfortunate blow to already strained relations between riders and equestrians. I'm very active in the Prescott mountain biking scene. I co-own a local mountain bike promotions company and currently sit on a committee to develop a new IMBA chapter club. This horse business was the nana-nana-boo-boo response to IMBA proposing Prescott become a designated Ride Center. This is huge for Prescott's riding community, and frankly the community at large as it will bring dollars, visitors, bike lanes, and community resources that will benefit hikers, riders and even those complainers on their horses.

I have never had a bad trail encounter with an equestrian, in fact they've all been very pleasant, polite and without drama. I've certainly done my share of back breaking work to fix their damn divots and I've dodged more manure than I care to, but I'd never dream of suggesting they be forced out.

My guess is, their lame cause will implode their collective organization as not all of them support it. The irony? Their mission statement on the front page of their web site says they work to maintain trail access for all users. Right.

The good news? The mountain bike community in Prescott is massive and growing daily. It's also a very nice, diplomatic group with the bigger picture in full view. However...cross us and we'll squash you like a trail apple under a 2.4 Nevagal. Not really, but that sounded tough, huh?

 

[Christophe Noel]

I know that was a long time ago, but perhaps there is an opportunity for you guys up in Prescott to partner with the PNF again. Prescott's user group demographics are very interesting, bridging the gaps between the user groups is an important effort that should be ongoing and relies on volunteers.

We're pretty lucky with regard to PNF relations. My little business works directly with PNF on trail projects and the current Trail Coordinator within the district is a local rider, buddy and currently on the committee with us to get this IMBA Ride Center launched. We've got the momentum right now.

Get this - IMBA came to town with a team of 6 reps to discuss the possibilities for riding in Prescott and 65 people showed up. In the room were members of city council, the economic development committee, even the mayor. We've got the momentum, for sure.

 

[Scott Brady]

Christophe,

Make sure you let us know if you need any support from those of us on the North side. . .

 

[EMrider]

Sorry to hear that you have to even deal with such B.S.

I'm could do without horse people, or more specifically most of the horse people I've encountered on trails around my home. Too many of them who have a "what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable" attitude towards trail use. I know/follow all the rules of trail ettiquete, and have still had some rude encounters.

R