I have a new to me 2002 limited that smokes on take off after idling and constantly smells like burning oil(maybe valve cover or cam seals). Unsure of maintenance history. What are the chances of the valve guides being worn? Could the smoking be caused by any other known Montero issues? From reading around seems like the valve stem seals weren't as big of an issue on the model, compared to older models. I'm preparing to do the valve stem seals, if needed, but don't just want a bandaid. Thanks for the help, love these forums!!
Probability of valve guides worn?
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coffeegoat
Adventurer
Well, when you're in there looking at the valve seals you should be able to see if there is any play in the valve inferring the valve guide is bad. I would take a close look at the valves to see if this might be a problem, but there are lots of threads on new valve seals fixing the problem. A 2002 is an odd duck year along with 2001 where it's a 3rd gen montero - but not a 3.8L engine, so you get a bit of both.
Couple of other notes - while you're in there don't forget to clean your lifters, easy to do, relatively quick, and when I got into to do mines, none of them were working correctly before I cleaned them.
Secondly - actually pulling the heads is substantially more work than you expect, I'd say it probably adds ~ 8-12 hours on top of whatever it takes you to do the valve seals. Mostly it's the cleaning, exhaust manifolds, valve lapping, etc, you know all that other stuff you do "while you're in there." If you go with the "rope method" you can save yourself a bunch of time, and probably get 85-90% of the benefit. If I was going to do it again I'd seriously consider going that route. Either way you go, you'll want to do the timing belt, plugs, wires, water pump, camshaft seals, etc, because they're a pain to get to and if you don't have a maintenance history they are probably out of date.
I'm about 90% through a full refresh and the pics will be up in the next couple days so you can see what you're getting into.
Anyways - welcome to the mitsu board.
Couple of other notes - while you're in there don't forget to clean your lifters, easy to do, relatively quick, and when I got into to do mines, none of them were working correctly before I cleaned them.
Secondly - actually pulling the heads is substantially more work than you expect, I'd say it probably adds ~ 8-12 hours on top of whatever it takes you to do the valve seals. Mostly it's the cleaning, exhaust manifolds, valve lapping, etc, you know all that other stuff you do "while you're in there." If you go with the "rope method" you can save yourself a bunch of time, and probably get 85-90% of the benefit. If I was going to do it again I'd seriously consider going that route. Either way you go, you'll want to do the timing belt, plugs, wires, water pump, camshaft seals, etc, because they're a pain to get to and if you don't have a maintenance history they are probably out of date.
I'm about 90% through a full refresh and the pics will be up in the next couple days so you can see what you're getting into.
Anyways - welcome to the mitsu board.
normal_dave
waytoomuchwritinginposts.
Welcome,
Based on my personal experience, valve guide damage is possible, but not probable, in terms of our Monty's "ol smoky" reputation. I put the job off on the wife's '03 Sport 3.5L for way too long, fearing the replacement of the seals wouldn't solve the problem, or worse yet wouldn't last due to worn valve guides. I should have tackled the job right away as the success of the repair has been night and day, and has lasted well over a year of daily driving.
It is not a job for the faint of heart however. I replaced mine with the head on the engine, using this Lisle valve spring removal tool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1DmJQ4Fods and my air compressor charging each cylinder to hold the valve up while the spring and retainers were removed. You will need to create a direct inline access to each valve stem with the tool, I used a hand held sledge to ********** the tool, which compressed the spring, and allowed the magnet inside the tool to catch the keepers safely, then easily remove the retainer and spring. Assembly is basically the reverse, changing the tool head. I removed the battery, and a few other fender well mounted accessories to create room. No way would I use any other method to do this with the engine in the car. You can also do the rope trick, with no air compressor, insert a length of rope through the spark plug hole, gently compressing it up to TDC to hold the valves up in each cylinder while you work.
What I didn't have was these really cool pliers (thanks evomaki) to remove the worn seals: I'll buy these in a minute for when the time comes on my '02 Montero: It is really a pain to remove the old seals without it...because I did, and wish I hadn't.
https://www.amazon.com/Schley-Products-Narrow-Access-Removal/dp/B000M1F5CA
I also ended up buying Fel Pro valve stem seals since they were on sale, and there seemed to be confusion about which ones OEM was using for repair now. The Fel Pro were always Viton material and good quality in my V8 builds of old, and they were no disappointment here either, from Rockauto. Try not to avoid skimping on the right tools for this job. When you are partway into the job, and discover the mess you are in, you'll pay any price to get out cleanly, so bite the bullet now, buy the tools, become the expert, and be ready when a friend needs to do the same job, or another Montero wanders into the yard, as they often do.
So, how did we end up in this smoky room of Montero oil burning hades that everyone else gives up on? The fix- replace your rear cam seal with an OEM, and seal the drivers side plate with sealer, replace your front cam seals when you do the timing belt, replace your valve cover gaskets with OEM, taking care to clean, dry, and straighten the inner channels of the cover and don't over tighten. Replace your pcv valve with only the OEM, and clean/clear the passages in the intake and valve cover, and crossover tube. While on the job, clean and bleed the lifters, (all of them), and replace ones that fail with OEM only, using this procedure:
http://www.club3g.com/forum/maintenance/165458-how-bleeding-lifters-v6.html
I've posted elsewhere, that I believe the combination of seal age/wear and poor maintenance, negligence, ignorance, or all of the above, contribute to the starvation of oil in the top end, and the resulting lifter tick, burned seals, and the dreaded smoke issue that makes most folks think the oil rings are gone, which more than likely is not the case.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/163491-An-oil-story-about-my-6G74-3-5L-vehicles
This sounds like a lot of time and effort. It is, but I attest that it is indeed worth it, I got a new appreciation for my trucks and their design and capability once I realized the few hurdles that had to be cleared and accepted as "this is just what needs to be done when you own a Mitsubishi". You'll save yourself a fortune if you are reasonable mechanically inclined.
More than you asked for, hopefully exactly what you need. And since I've taken so much time writing, ditto: "what coffeegoat said..."
Based on my personal experience, valve guide damage is possible, but not probable, in terms of our Monty's "ol smoky" reputation. I put the job off on the wife's '03 Sport 3.5L for way too long, fearing the replacement of the seals wouldn't solve the problem, or worse yet wouldn't last due to worn valve guides. I should have tackled the job right away as the success of the repair has been night and day, and has lasted well over a year of daily driving.
It is not a job for the faint of heart however. I replaced mine with the head on the engine, using this Lisle valve spring removal tool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1DmJQ4Fods and my air compressor charging each cylinder to hold the valve up while the spring and retainers were removed. You will need to create a direct inline access to each valve stem with the tool, I used a hand held sledge to ********** the tool, which compressed the spring, and allowed the magnet inside the tool to catch the keepers safely, then easily remove the retainer and spring. Assembly is basically the reverse, changing the tool head. I removed the battery, and a few other fender well mounted accessories to create room. No way would I use any other method to do this with the engine in the car. You can also do the rope trick, with no air compressor, insert a length of rope through the spark plug hole, gently compressing it up to TDC to hold the valves up in each cylinder while you work.
What I didn't have was these really cool pliers (thanks evomaki) to remove the worn seals: I'll buy these in a minute for when the time comes on my '02 Montero: It is really a pain to remove the old seals without it...because I did, and wish I hadn't.
https://www.amazon.com/Schley-Products-Narrow-Access-Removal/dp/B000M1F5CA
I also ended up buying Fel Pro valve stem seals since they were on sale, and there seemed to be confusion about which ones OEM was using for repair now. The Fel Pro were always Viton material and good quality in my V8 builds of old, and they were no disappointment here either, from Rockauto. Try not to avoid skimping on the right tools for this job. When you are partway into the job, and discover the mess you are in, you'll pay any price to get out cleanly, so bite the bullet now, buy the tools, become the expert, and be ready when a friend needs to do the same job, or another Montero wanders into the yard, as they often do.
So, how did we end up in this smoky room of Montero oil burning hades that everyone else gives up on? The fix- replace your rear cam seal with an OEM, and seal the drivers side plate with sealer, replace your front cam seals when you do the timing belt, replace your valve cover gaskets with OEM, taking care to clean, dry, and straighten the inner channels of the cover and don't over tighten. Replace your pcv valve with only the OEM, and clean/clear the passages in the intake and valve cover, and crossover tube. While on the job, clean and bleed the lifters, (all of them), and replace ones that fail with OEM only, using this procedure:
http://www.club3g.com/forum/maintenance/165458-how-bleeding-lifters-v6.html
I've posted elsewhere, that I believe the combination of seal age/wear and poor maintenance, negligence, ignorance, or all of the above, contribute to the starvation of oil in the top end, and the resulting lifter tick, burned seals, and the dreaded smoke issue that makes most folks think the oil rings are gone, which more than likely is not the case.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/163491-An-oil-story-about-my-6G74-3-5L-vehicles
This sounds like a lot of time and effort. It is, but I attest that it is indeed worth it, I got a new appreciation for my trucks and their design and capability once I realized the few hurdles that had to be cleared and accepted as "this is just what needs to be done when you own a Mitsubishi". You'll save yourself a fortune if you are reasonable mechanically inclined.
More than you asked for, hopefully exactly what you need. And since I've taken so much time writing, ditto: "what coffeegoat said..."
coffeegoat
Adventurer
They look nearly identical. In fact most of the aftermarkets are apparently identical. If you look at the OEM the exhaust sides are greenish and the intakes are black. This isn't of course noted anywhere convenient...
When I got the full engine overhaul gasket kit they weren't labeled, I had to very carefully clean the old ones to figure out which ones went where.
When I got the full engine overhaul gasket kit they weren't labeled, I had to very carefully clean the old ones to figure out which ones went where.
normal_dave
waytoomuchwritinginposts.
Mine were different, Fel Pro kit, intake vs. exhaust, aftermarket, the entire set is on closeout now $ 2.27 for the set, normally $ 33.79. I recently bought another set at the $ 2.27 price.
I was perfectly happy with the Fel Pro, even though I most always advocate OEM. There was the same confusion about part numbers when I was going to get mine OEM.
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=260865&cc=1387975&jsn=352
I was perfectly happy with the Fel Pro, even though I most always advocate OEM. There was the same confusion about part numbers when I was going to get mine OEM.
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=260865&cc=1387975&jsn=352
JohnnyBfromPeoria
I'm Getting Around To It
The original valve stem seals were different, intake vs. exhaust, but the replacements are all the same part numbers, as I understand things. There's a reason for that, and it's because the ones used now actually hold up.
John B.
John B.