Project 35, The Stray

[Metcalf]

Well, another project followed me home. I swear I never plan these things, but sometimes you find a vehicle that pushes that button for you and you just can't walk away. It was close enough to me and cheap enough I just couldn't pass.....lets just say that there are TVs at Walmart more expensive than this donor......

1997 Wrangler Sport (135,000 miles)
4.0 with the 3spd Automatic Transmission
D44 Rear axle
Soft Top with Half Doors

This project came about because most (3 out of 5) of my good friends that I do long and difficult trips with all use TJ's set up on 35" tires. We basically made an informal pack to not run a tire larger than 35". Personally, I think the change from 35 to 37" tires is where you fall over to another world. This is where you start having to swap in much stronger axles like 9" or Dana 60 options. I KNOW what many people make 37s work on alloy axle D44s and D30s, but we had to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Since everyone else is running 35s already, that was the vote. Also...this is where 'Project 35' comes from.....

This isn't my 1st TJ. I have built a few over the years for myself and help my friends with there build-ups too. Now, I know a lot of people in the expedition community have no interest in large tires like 35's and I completely understand that. This vehicle is going to be my version of the ultimate crossover vehicle. Its is going to be built to not only do weekend trips in Moab or the Colorado high country, but also be flexible enough to drive cross country, or go down to Baja for a week or two. This is not suppose to be a vehicle that I would want to drive around the world, though I think that it would be plenty capable of that. I think the SWB Jeeps can be great expedition vehicles for 1-2 people. If brave souls can run epic worldwide expeditions on a motorcycle, us simple mortals can do just about anything with the extra room in a SWB Jeep. I think the key is to not loose the light weight and minimal space philosophy. I try and think of it as motorized backpacking.

I have some defined goals for this project.......

-A finished 'trail' weight of 3XXXlbs. I'm a pretty big proponent of building lighter more minimalistic vehicles. I think light weight is the key to performance on and off the road, fuel mileage, parts longevity, etc.

-This jeep will run 35" tall tires with what I consider minimal lift and maximum clearance. Since this Jeep needs all new front sheetmetal it's the perfect opportunity to use the American Expedition Vehicles Highline body kit. This will allow me to keep the overall height very low and eliminate the need for complex and heavy long arm lift systems.

-Maximum Clearance. I think that there is a fine line between what works well as far as a low center of gravity vs having enough clearance for off-road. While the AEV highline kit will allow me to run minimal lift, this still leaves some problem areas on the TJ chassis that would sit far too low to allow good off-road performance. The major point of focus will be a flat belly conversion. This will not be an off the shelf unit, but rather a flat to the frame ( with a slight 3/8" sump ) aluminium piece that will not only cover the transfer case area but also extend forward under the transmission. This will also be done WITHOUT a body lift or tub/floor modifications......

-Great suspension performance. This TJ will only be getting a 3-2.5" short arm suspension system. I don't like the complexity and added weight of long arm suspension systems. I also don't think that they are needed. If you keep the lift height conservative you can maximize the performance of the stock TJ suspension without ruining it. Don't think for a minute that this will be as simple as a new set of springs.

These are just the broad strokes. This project won't move that fast, but I hope to have it 'finished' by the 2011 Easter Jeep Safari....and perhaps Overland Expo will be around the same time of year.

My brain works best when I have something to look at to help me visualize the final product.....and help my brain come up with new ideas.......

This is the closest representation I could find of what I am trying to accomplish with this project. This Jeep was built by Rock Your 4x4. I think it demonstrates a lot of the characteristics and qualities I want in the end.

Thoughts, comments, questions all welcome....

 

[Root Moose]

Sounds like a good build.

What do you have in mind to widen the track width? Just going to play around with wheel offsets? I'm assuming you are keeping the stock axles. Any plan to do a HP Dana 30? A WJ front axle could give you ~3" of track (but is a different lug pattern, and brackets are different). Cheap though.

 

[alosix]

That 35" tire limit among wheeling buddies really does sound like a decent idea.

The club I used to wheel with in MD started out around on 33s when I started wheeling. Then a few guys put on 35s, then everyone had 35s, then we broke axles and dig junk yard 60s. Then 37s..

Now nearly everyone that still regularly wheels has a non streetable towed rig on nearly 40" tires that's held together with chicken wire or a nearly turn key rock buggy that they mortgaged the house for.


if I was building another TJ It would definately be a high line fendered short lift with either 35s or 37s (would depend on the drivetrain budget).

The only thing I'd want to watch running a short arm kit is the frame site mounts. I can't believe how bad the welds are on a lot of the 97s that I have long armed. It realy only took a few hits with a grinder and a big hammer to get them off.

I'd probably get the short arm lift on, figure out how much room you have at full droop, then box the bottom of the lower mounts with some 3/16". The add a few beads on the frame side if it looks like it wasn't really welded.

After that, go over the upper mounts on the frame to make sure they are really on there.

 

[Metcalf]

Root,

Wheel offset will be the only change in track width. With the low height I don't need to get too much wider. The AEV Pinters with 3.6" backspacing seem to work out pretty well for 35x12.5 tires.

Unless I can find a South American XJ high pinion D44 front :Wow1: this Jeep will be getting the high pinion D30 front out of a Cherokee. The high pinion front housing really helps get the drive shaft up and allows a decent amount of front caster with a 3" lift. The drive shaft also needs to come up for the belly conversion.

 

[Metcalf]

That 35" tire limit among wheeling buddies really does sound like a decent idea.

Don't get me wrong. I got talked into this My dodge runs 39s all the time, every day.
I think it will work out well. Spare tires carry over, vehicle size, weight, track width, spare parts....generally will all carry over.

The club I used to wheel with in MD started out around on 33s when I started wheeling. Then a few guys put on 35s, then everyone had 35s, then we broke axles and dig junk yard 60s. Then 37s..

Now nearly everyone that still regularly wheels has a non streetable towed rig on nearly 40" tires that's held together with chicken wire or a nearly turn key rock buggy that they mortgaged the house for.

We went through a lot of the same thing. I would definitely like a buggy on 40s, but then I have to tow it around all the time, deal with parking the trailer, etc. I even already have the truck and trailer to do it....but that seems to get pretty old. I would also be the only one of my friends to have a buggy. I just don't think that would be that fun.


if I was building another TJ It would definately be a high line fendered short lift with either 35s or 37s (would depend on the drivetrain budget).

I think if I was doing an LJ I would have pushed harder for everyone else to bump up to 37s, but on the 94" wheelbase I think 35s are just about perfect, especially if you can get some decent clearance under some slightly smaller or shaved axles.

The only thing I'd want to watch running a short arm kit is the frame site mounts. I can't believe how bad the welds are on a lot of the 97s that I have long armed. It realy only took a few hits with a grinder and a big hammer to get them off.

I'd probably get the short arm lift on, figure out how much room you have at full droop, then box the bottom of the lower mounts with some 3/16". The add a few beads on the frame side if it looks like it wasn't really welded.

Thanks for the tip. I might just re-weld the lowers just to be safe. I'm going to be modding the lower mounts slightly so it won't be a big deal.

After that, go over the upper mounts on the frame to make sure they are really on there.

I have always had to brace the uppers at the frame, especially in the rear. I will have the tub off for paint at some time so I can weld in a nice little addition no problem.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[UK4X4]

Now I have to ask..thats a pretty good frontal impact on the engine and drive system

what failed ?

ie the engines moved about 12" back..........

body no worries

but you'll be nickle and dimed to death for the little pieces that imploded in the engine bay.

If you have a rear ended doner then fine.........if you have to buy it all.........it won't be cheap.

lets just guess a little, ignoring the bodywork

Ac compressor
water pump
fan
radiator
rear drive shaft guess it folded- or the gearbox $$$
all the engine and gearbox and transfer mounts
gear linkage
intake manifold
exhaust manifold
exhaust
washer bottle expansion tank
steering linkage
engine ECU
Fuel rail / lines

dam you could go on and on..

Any way - yep a BIG project !

I build stuff that I could buy made for less and just do it for the fun...

so ignore all above and enjoy !

 

[Metcalf]

Ac compressor
The condensor was the only thing that got ruined in the a/c system. Everything else is fine.

water pump
Broken pulley, but is getting replaced with a shorter XJ pump/pulley

fan
Toast, but I am using a 2.4L 03+ TJ electric fan because of another modification.

radiator
Upgrading to an aluminum bolt in unit. TJs need extra cooling anyways.

rear drive shaft guess it folded- or the gearbox $$$
Broke at the yoke. Its getting replaced with an CV rear shaft anyways.

all the engine and gearbox and transfer mounts
Motor mounts are the biggest pain. I will be using the MORE motor plates to beef up this area. I will also be using a special lifted and shifted motor mount for another mod.

gear linkage

Transmission cable shifter was fine. T-case will be replaced with a cable shift since the t-case position is NOT going to be stock any more.

intake manifold
exhaust manifold
steering linkage
engine ECU
Fuel rail / lines

All ended up being just fine.

exhaust

Needs reworked for another mod, but did do ok. Header and wrap around are fine.

washer bottle
expansion tank

Ebay

It is a big project, don't get me wrong. This will most likely be a full body off frame up rebuild. I enjoy this kinda stuff so its not a big deal. This was destined to be a big project anyway and in some respects having to repair a lot of little stuff makes it easier to modify other stuff. It is basically bolting the right combination of stock parts together mixed with a few special and custom parts mixed in.

 

[1speed]

I'm glad to see you will be posting again, I really liked the Dodge project.

I think 35's are fine for Overlanding. Look at the tires on a Unimog or some of the Fusos, or the Turtle truck for that matter. I'm running 35's on the truck and the Jeep. I did a 5200 mile trip on and off road in the Jeep towing the trailer and thought they offered a good compromise. I would like to go up to 37's on the truck but I really don't need to.

If you modify the fenders you can run 35's on the TJ with 4 inches of lift no problem, I run them with the Metalcloak fenders and 4" lift.

I think you have a good plan developing, can't wait to see it unfold!

 

[Metcalf]

Hey speed,

yeah, the dodge ended up working a little too well. I can't stop driving the thing long enough to work on it. Its like the energizer bunny! I have zero complaints with the 39s on the Dodge.

For the TJ I think 35s will be just about perfect. Not to big....not too small. I will only be running 2-3" of lift on it with the 35s and the Highline kit. It works out nice that all the front shee tmetal needs replaced anyway

 

[alosix]

I commend you on your restraint to still use the I6 in there.

Given a Jeep with that much damage up front, I'd be adding something 'more fun' in there. A turbo 2.4 our of a neon, 5.7 hemi, something .

 

[JPNCA]

Did ya get a Carfax report? It looks like it may have been driven hard:wings::victory:


Cool project. Good luck I'm interested to see how it goes:Wow1::smiley_drive:

 

[Metcalf]

I honestly think the I6 is just fine for a TJ. Two of my friends now have 5.3 GM V8's in there TJs, honestly, I just think it crosses that line again where you need to start thinking about making a ton of modifications to keep up with the V8.

The only thing I would swap the 4.0 out for is a nice little turbo diesel, but that isn't going to happen.

On the pre-2003 4.0's you can play with some displacement modifications pretty easy too. I think they are running 4.0's out to 4.9-5 liters now. I really really want to be able to use 85-87 octane on this motor in the end. Even in stock form they tend to like 89 octane. If I do rebuild the motor I will likely drop the compression slightly and play with the SCR/DCR to allow the use low octane fuel.

Anyone have any ideas for a very high clearance 20 gallon fuel tank that doesn't require a body lift, cutting the tub, or loosing any internal cargo space? I'm talking a BIG increase in ground clearance, not just an inch. I think the TJ suffers from two very big factory flaws. One, the belly clearance is terrible, and I have a fix for that. Two, the clearance under the fuel tank. Its just awful in stock form. Ideally I would like to get the fuel tank up to the bottom of the frame, but still retain a 20 gallon capacity. I honestly think it would be very challenging......

 

[Root Moose]

I haven't been under a TJ in a while so I can't say I remember exactly how the fuel tank is setup.

But, when has that ever stopped me from throwing in my 2¢?

I saw this thread in the LR section and was thinking about using the area behind the front transfer case output as a location for a similar tank.

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38868

If you cut down the stock location tank to get the clearance you want (push tank up, section bottom, whatever) is there enough space behind the left side of the transfer case to be worth the bother of doing an auxiliary tank like in that location?

JAT

 

[Root Moose]

BTW, agree on the V8 thing. I sold my V8 for the YJ for that reason.

 

[JeepN95YJ]

Anyone have any ideas for a very high clearance 20 gallon fuel tank that doesn't require a body lift, cutting the tub, or loosing any internal cargo space? I'm talking a BIG increase in ground clearance, not just an inch. I think the TJ suffers from two very big factory flaws. One, the belly clearance is terrible, and I have a fix for that. Two, the clearance under the fuel tank. Its just awful in stock form. Ideally I would like to get the fuel tank up to the bottom of the frame, but still retain a 20 gallon capacity. I honestly think it would be very challenging......

On my YJ I used a TJ tank and skidplate and raised the rear mounting point of the skid plate from the bottom of the rear crossmember to the top. This raised the tank approximately 4 inches. I had a 1 inch body lift and the top of the tank was right at the bottom of the tub.

I had to remove the center of the frame crossmember above the tank so I built a 2" square tube frame that bolted into the tub and the front mount of my tank attached there. I believe you could use a similar technique (especially with body off the frame) and easily raise the tank 3.5-4 inches without cutting the tub.