G35Vortec454
Adventurer
How does pull-pall fare in soft dry sand? In the beach / wet sand?
What kind of vehicle did you use it with?
What kind of vehicle did you use it with?
Pull-Pall
- Thread starter G35Vortec454
- Start date
goodtimes
Expedition Poseur
We played around with one last weekend at the 2007 Expedition Trophy. We were in moderately moist sand. It worked very well when hooked up to Eds FJ40. I imagine real dry sand would not work quite as well, and packed dirt/rocks would probably not be the best substrate either.
It did require 2 people to use (one to operate the winch, the other to set the pull-pal)....unless you have a long cord on your winch remote, or a decent range on your wireless remote.
It did require 2 people to use (one to operate the winch, the other to set the pull-pal)....unless you have a long cord on your winch remote, or a decent range on your wireless remote.
Robthebrit
Explorer
I don't like pull pals at all...
If you have a Unimog they are the next best thing to useless. The test I did was on the flat so the weight of the truck was not a big of a factor as it could of been and the truck was not stuck. In bone dry sand it simply pulled through the sand like a plow, even if you buried it a few feet deep the truck would not budge. In more suitable terrain it worked a little better until we bent it. The spare wheel worked better but it still pulled out.
Danforth boat anchors are all around much better than pull pals and they are cheaper, if necessary you can get them really big. However, even these suck in dry sand.
In general winching toward the ground is a bad idea unless you put the anchor point far in front of you. You are basically wasting winch power trying to pulling down,not forwards.
Rob
If you have a Unimog they are the next best thing to useless. The test I did was on the flat so the weight of the truck was not a big of a factor as it could of been and the truck was not stuck. In bone dry sand it simply pulled through the sand like a plow, even if you buried it a few feet deep the truck would not budge. In more suitable terrain it worked a little better until we bent it. The spare wheel worked better but it still pulled out.
Danforth boat anchors are all around much better than pull pals and they are cheaper, if necessary you can get them really big. However, even these suck in dry sand.
In general winching toward the ground is a bad idea unless you put the anchor point far in front of you. You are basically wasting winch power trying to pulling down,not forwards.
Rob
cruiseroutfit
Well-known member
Robthebrit said:
Whats your definition of "far in front of you"?
The amount of downware force is pretty minimal unless you've got the cable attatched under 10-15ft in front of you...
A winch with a fairlead a 3' off the ground and just 15' out front... With a 10k winch your still have a pulling force of close to 9800lbs, not a whole lot of losses.
I've heard this before... is there some aspect of it I'm not taking into consideration??
Robthebrit
Explorer
I think you have it right, its just as you get closer to the anchor point you get less and less forward pull. More importantly, the force that is not puling you forwards is effectively pulling straight up and there lies the problem. It only takes a few hundred pounds of upwards force to dislodge a pull pal, if you were anchored to a rock, tree or some other immovable object then it would not be an issue until you got really close to the anchor point.
Rob
Rob
cruiseroutfit
Well-known member
Robthebrit said:
I guess the moral is... put the Pull-Pal far out ahead of you... and don't hook a Mog to a Pull-Pal
As for my personaly experiences, I'm never used my Pull-Pal for anything but a demo and playing around. I don't anticipate needing it until I leave it home one time.
Beats digging a hole or storing a Danforth (unless you have a Mog)VikingVince
Explorer
goodtimes said:
Yeah, it did work well...that was my pullpal we used. I had never used it and now I feel good about carrying it along. And actually, it wouldn't have required two people ...yes, I was on the pullpal end and pushed it down into the sand a little before the winch started but once the line started pulling I didn't do anything. So, in our situation anyway, one person could have easily just set it into the sand and then gotten back into the truck. Because, like I said, I didn't do anything once the line began pulling. I would guess that we initally had the pullpal about 30-40 feet from the truck.
Scott Brady
Founder
I have used pull pals and other ground anchors (blade style) in several environments. The only area they do not work well is in very soft/dry sand. The key is setting it correctly, which may include a pilot hole.
dhackney
Expedition Leader
We have tested our 14k Pull Pal with our FG.
Tested vehicle weight was ~15k lbs.
Incline was ~5 degrees
Distance from front and back winch (we tested both) was full extension except for the last 6-7 wraps of the 16k Warn winches - ~ 80-90'
Soil was mixed dry sand & dirt with small rocks
We dug a pilot hole of ~18" and steadied the Pull Pall in the hole until the winch took up the slack.
We had no difficulty in pulling the truck all the way to the anchor. Keep in mind the truck was not stuck, although we did apply braking force to ensure a good wrap.
Note that Danforth anchors, while great performers in marine anchorages of sand and mud and admirably lightweight and compact have very limited direct pull ratings. The largest Danforth I was able to find at the marine supply shops in San Diego was only rated for ~5k lbs. I had initially planned to carry one on our FG until I checked their ratings at the marine store.
The highest rated high-tensile Danforth anchor on their web site, Part #94026, model #190H, is rated at a maximum holding power of 7,700 lbs. and weighs 190 lbs.
For the sake of comparison the 14k lb capacity Pul Pall weighs 45 lbs., the 11k lbs capacity weighs 36 lbs. & the 6k lb capacity weighs 24 lbs.
But I'll bet you're wondering how an anchor rated at only 5k lbs pull force manages to keep a 40,000 lb. displacement 52' sailboat anchored.
When you lay out a 5:1 to 10:1 scope (ratio) of anchor rode (chain, rope or combination thereof) you aren't putting that much pulling force directly on the anchor. Lifting that much anchor rode off the bottom is what mostly keeps in you in position.
When you lay out your anchor rode, after you set the anchor with the boat's engine running in reverse, the rode drops down to the bottom. As the boat is driven by the wind at anchor, it pulls the rode up off the bottom to the extent required to resist the force of the wind blowing on the boat & rigging. It takes a lot of wind force to lift a 10:1 or even 5:1 rode in 20-30' of water. I've dived on our anchorages and found more than 3/4 of the rode laying on the bottom with only a couple dozen feet or less being lifted by the boat riding at anchor, even in blustery anchorages with a lot of freeboard (the distance from the waterline to the deck).
In a storm/survival situation when you expect huge pulling forces on the anchor you deploy a Herreschoff or "fishermans" anchor (think of the classic image of a ship's anchor) along the expected axis of greatest force. That type of anchor has a shaft and materials construction that can take the force of a very heavy boat being driven by high winds.
Tested vehicle weight was ~15k lbs.
Incline was ~5 degrees
Distance from front and back winch (we tested both) was full extension except for the last 6-7 wraps of the 16k Warn winches - ~ 80-90'
Soil was mixed dry sand & dirt with small rocks
We dug a pilot hole of ~18" and steadied the Pull Pall in the hole until the winch took up the slack.
We had no difficulty in pulling the truck all the way to the anchor. Keep in mind the truck was not stuck, although we did apply braking force to ensure a good wrap.
Note that Danforth anchors, while great performers in marine anchorages of sand and mud and admirably lightweight and compact have very limited direct pull ratings. The largest Danforth I was able to find at the marine supply shops in San Diego was only rated for ~5k lbs. I had initially planned to carry one on our FG until I checked their ratings at the marine store.
The highest rated high-tensile Danforth anchor on their web site, Part #94026, model #190H, is rated at a maximum holding power of 7,700 lbs. and weighs 190 lbs.
For the sake of comparison the 14k lb capacity Pul Pall weighs 45 lbs., the 11k lbs capacity weighs 36 lbs. & the 6k lb capacity weighs 24 lbs.
But I'll bet you're wondering how an anchor rated at only 5k lbs pull force manages to keep a 40,000 lb. displacement 52' sailboat anchored.
When you lay out a 5:1 to 10:1 scope (ratio) of anchor rode (chain, rope or combination thereof) you aren't putting that much pulling force directly on the anchor. Lifting that much anchor rode off the bottom is what mostly keeps in you in position.
When you lay out your anchor rode, after you set the anchor with the boat's engine running in reverse, the rode drops down to the bottom. As the boat is driven by the wind at anchor, it pulls the rode up off the bottom to the extent required to resist the force of the wind blowing on the boat & rigging. It takes a lot of wind force to lift a 10:1 or even 5:1 rode in 20-30' of water. I've dived on our anchorages and found more than 3/4 of the rode laying on the bottom with only a couple dozen feet or less being lifted by the boat riding at anchor, even in blustery anchorages with a lot of freeboard (the distance from the waterline to the deck).
In a storm/survival situation when you expect huge pulling forces on the anchor you deploy a Herreschoff or "fishermans" anchor (think of the classic image of a ship's anchor) along the expected axis of greatest force. That type of anchor has a shaft and materials construction that can take the force of a very heavy boat being driven by high winds.
Last edited:
cruiseroutfit
Well-known member
dhackney said:
Great additions...
I never really considered the anchor situation of a boat, thanks for opening my eyes Here is a video of a Unlimited TJ using his to pull himself through some slick shallow mud.
http://photos.imageevent.com/daffleck/rubiconunlimted/PullPalWinch1.wmv
http://photos.imageevent.com/daffleck/rubiconunlimted/PullPalWinch1.wmv
paulj
Expedition Leader
The pull-pal reminds me of a Bruce anchor that can be disassembled for storage.
http://www.bruceanchor.co.uk/cast.htm
http://www.bruceanchor.co.uk/cast.htm
