School me on IFS toyotas.
- Thread starter wentz912
- Start date
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
What are you looking for?
The 22R-E is the same from 1985 to 1988. The 1988 will have a W56, same behind all 22R-E engines. The 1988 will have a W56-B, BTW. The '88 will have the same top shift transfer case as all 22R trucks before 1989. The IFS is the same from 1986 through 1995, basically. I have control (A-arms) arms parts from a 1987 on my 1991.
If I was shopping for an IFS truck I would look at a couple of things. First, do a once over on the engine and drivetrain like you would with any truck. You want 125 psi or more compression in each cylinder, ideally 135+ and +/- no more than about 5~10 psi at the most. The shifter seat will be loose (the stick will feel wobbly). If so, that's more or less normal, if not then it's possible the guy is very good about maintenance.
Check the ball joints, tie rod ends and idler arm for abnormal wear. Most likely the idler arm and ball joints will be worn and that's not particularly unusual. Look on the frame near the idler, if there are wear marks, scratches, etc., or if the idler is loose, then the the steering will need some attention. If you want to quick check that the frame is straight, measure the distance between the lower, rear A-arm mounts. These are the big gusseted mounts coming straight down from the frame where the suspension is bolted. It should be very close to 17" from inside-to-inside. If it's more than 17.25" then it's possible the truck has been abused or jumped
Mostly the same stuff that applies to 1979-1985 trucks applies, the only difference is the IFS itself. The front diff on an IFS truck is a 7.5" ring gear and does have a slightly higher rate of failure. So spin the half shafts, open the fill plug, make sure it's smooth. In a stock truck it's extremely unlikely that the front diff will be a problem, though. Also make sure the CV joints aren't clicky and are smooth. You can tell a lot just turning them by hand with the hubs unlocked, but be sure to engage 4WD and check them on dirt.
The main things different from a solid axle truck you need to give a once over:
idler arm (right side frame, opposite of the steering box)
CV axles
ball joints
lower rear control arm mounts
TREs
The 22R-E is the same from 1985 to 1988. The 1988 will have a W56, same behind all 22R-E engines. The 1988 will have a W56-B, BTW. The '88 will have the same top shift transfer case as all 22R trucks before 1989. The IFS is the same from 1986 through 1995, basically. I have control (A-arms) arms parts from a 1987 on my 1991.
If I was shopping for an IFS truck I would look at a couple of things. First, do a once over on the engine and drivetrain like you would with any truck. You want 125 psi or more compression in each cylinder, ideally 135+ and +/- no more than about 5~10 psi at the most. The shifter seat will be loose (the stick will feel wobbly). If so, that's more or less normal, if not then it's possible the guy is very good about maintenance.
Check the ball joints, tie rod ends and idler arm for abnormal wear. Most likely the idler arm and ball joints will be worn and that's not particularly unusual. Look on the frame near the idler, if there are wear marks, scratches, etc., or if the idler is loose, then the the steering will need some attention. If you want to quick check that the frame is straight, measure the distance between the lower, rear A-arm mounts. These are the big gusseted mounts coming straight down from the frame where the suspension is bolted. It should be very close to 17" from inside-to-inside. If it's more than 17.25" then it's possible the truck has been abused or jumped
Mostly the same stuff that applies to 1979-1985 trucks applies, the only difference is the IFS itself. The front diff on an IFS truck is a 7.5" ring gear and does have a slightly higher rate of failure. So spin the half shafts, open the fill plug, make sure it's smooth. In a stock truck it's extremely unlikely that the front diff will be a problem, though. Also make sure the CV joints aren't clicky and are smooth. You can tell a lot just turning them by hand with the hubs unlocked, but be sure to engage 4WD and check them on dirt.
The main things different from a solid axle truck you need to give a once over:
idler arm (right side frame, opposite of the steering box)
CV axles
ball joints
lower rear control arm mounts
TREs
awesome stuff dave. I plan on "baselining" whatever truck that I end up purchasing, it's just really looking like it's going to be an Ifs truck instead of a pre-86 like the one I had stolen from me.
anyways, thanks a load for the help, I'm curious to see if/how the others chime in.
oh, that reminds me, are there anythings that can/should be replaced immediately after purchasing a truck like this? By that I mean the sort of things that the factory should have put out a recall on and didn't or anything like that? or are the later second generation trucks just as reliable in every way as the earlier models?
anyways, thanks a load for the help, I'm curious to see if/how the others chime in.
oh, that reminds me, are there anythings that can/should be replaced immediately after purchasing a truck like this? By that I mean the sort of things that the factory should have put out a recall on and didn't or anything like that? or are the later second generation trucks just as reliable in every way as the earlier models?
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
There are only a couple of things that come to mind. If you get a V6 truck, the headgasket recall needs to have been done, which you probably know about. The other is that there is an active recall on the steering relay rod. This on an IFS goes between the steering box, idler and the two tie rods come off it to the steering arms. Toyota had some that apparently had bad metallurgy and could fracture, so if you take it in they will give you a new one. For free. You might also get a free alignment, which is nice. There is no mileage or age restrictions, a 15 or 20 year old truck gets a new steering relay rod. Nice.
Despite all the Internet wisdom, the '86-'95 IFS trucks are excellent values. In stock form they are just as reliable as any other Toyota. The IFS gets an unfair dink, but it's fine for what it is. Yes, it gives up some simplicity and articulation to the solid axle. No argument. But comparing stock to stock, the stock solid axle and the stock IFS aren't that much different in wheel travel and IMHO the stock IFS rides enough better that I hand's down prefer them as run around trucks. The problem with IFS is that there's only an inch or two of easy lift and not a lot of easy wheel travel to be had, where as a leaf sprung truck is easy to get 4" of lift and make a better crawler. But I got my truck through the Rubicon last spring, so IFS being completely unsuited to rock crawling is bull. If you are building a dedicated rock truck, sure, solid axles. If it's a mixed use, daily driver, a little rocks, lots of dirt roads, well I have stuck with IFS for a reason...
Personally, I think Toyota nailed it with the 3rd gen trucks, but each of the first three 4WD gens have their pluses and minuses. What is common is a relatively simple engine and drivetrain, straight forward design. All '79-'95 trucks share similar layouts, but the reason I think the '89-'95 trucks are the better is that Toyota licked the rust problem for real.
For an idea of what I think a great daily driver, weekend fun truck could be, I think what Steve Schaefer at Sonoran Steel built for his shop truck gives you a nice starting point. Mine is set up quite similar, just a few differences in the front suspension so that I can run 33" tall tires. But for a very reliable IFS truck, I think you only need to do a couple of things from stock. Add a rear frame truss and beef up the idler. That's really the only mandatory things that I think IFS trucks need. Otherwise, one of Budbuilt's low profile transfer case cross members is nice to gain clearance and get a real belly skid and some armor as fits the need.
http://www.yotatech.com/f86/sonoran...4wd-mini-pickup-featuring-mighty-28-s-104077/
Despite all the Internet wisdom, the '86-'95 IFS trucks are excellent values. In stock form they are just as reliable as any other Toyota. The IFS gets an unfair dink, but it's fine for what it is. Yes, it gives up some simplicity and articulation to the solid axle. No argument. But comparing stock to stock, the stock solid axle and the stock IFS aren't that much different in wheel travel and IMHO the stock IFS rides enough better that I hand's down prefer them as run around trucks. The problem with IFS is that there's only an inch or two of easy lift and not a lot of easy wheel travel to be had, where as a leaf sprung truck is easy to get 4" of lift and make a better crawler. But I got my truck through the Rubicon last spring, so IFS being completely unsuited to rock crawling is bull. If you are building a dedicated rock truck, sure, solid axles. If it's a mixed use, daily driver, a little rocks, lots of dirt roads, well I have stuck with IFS for a reason...
Personally, I think Toyota nailed it with the 3rd gen trucks, but each of the first three 4WD gens have their pluses and minuses. What is common is a relatively simple engine and drivetrain, straight forward design. All '79-'95 trucks share similar layouts, but the reason I think the '89-'95 trucks are the better is that Toyota licked the rust problem for real.
For an idea of what I think a great daily driver, weekend fun truck could be, I think what Steve Schaefer at Sonoran Steel built for his shop truck gives you a nice starting point. Mine is set up quite similar, just a few differences in the front suspension so that I can run 33" tall tires. But for a very reliable IFS truck, I think you only need to do a couple of things from stock. Add a rear frame truss and beef up the idler. That's really the only mandatory things that I think IFS trucks need. Otherwise, one of Budbuilt's low profile transfer case cross members is nice to gain clearance and get a real belly skid and some armor as fits the need.
http://www.yotatech.com/f86/sonoran...4wd-mini-pickup-featuring-mighty-28-s-104077/
Thanks a ton for the advice guys, I'll definitely see about getting that steering component replaced...
How about tires? I know that you could comfortably fit up to 32x11.5x15s on a stock pre-Ifs truck if you were willing to get a little creative with a hammer and the inner fenders. How big can I go before I should expect problems with an 88?
How about tires? I know that you could comfortably fit up to 32x11.5x15s on a stock pre-Ifs truck if you were willing to get a little creative with a hammer and the inner fenders. How big can I go before I should expect problems with an 88?
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
The cheapest, easiest unique thing to the IFS is a free 1~1.5" of lift just by turning up the ride height using the torsion adjustment. If you invest in low profile bump stops (cheap, maybe a total of $20 for both) for the upper side it's a legitimate 1.5" of lift. It's not completely hunky dory, doing this makes the ride a bit stiffer and you loose most of your wheel down travel. Buy, hey, free is WAY cheaper than 2" lift leaf springs! If you invest in ball joint spacers (about $100), you get the 1.5" of lift without the downsides of loss of wheel travel.
Oh, the other thing about IFS, it's got better steering from the factory. It's factory sorta high steer from Toyota. ;-) But for sure, you get an OEM IFS steering box, which is what the solid axle guys need for their fancy steering systems. You also get better vented disc brakes stock, which is another thing the solid axle guys envy. If you have a V6 IFS truck, you have dual 40mm piston calipers, the best stock brakes of any truck until the 80 series and newer Cruisers and 4 wheel disc 4Runners came along.
Oh, the other thing about IFS, it's got better steering from the factory. It's factory sorta high steer from Toyota. ;-) But for sure, you get an OEM IFS steering box, which is what the solid axle guys need for their fancy steering systems. You also get better vented disc brakes stock, which is another thing the solid axle guys envy. If you have a V6 IFS truck, you have dual 40mm piston calipers, the best stock brakes of any truck until the 80 series and newer Cruisers and 4 wheel disc 4Runners came along.
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
Mike has AR-23's on that truck, but I'll have to guess that they are 7's and I've no idea what the backspacing might be.wentz912 said:
You can buy the lower control arm pivot bracket brace, but from what I've seen it looks easy enough to build one. If you weld it in I'm told that getting the diff out of the truck can be interesting, but it's more robust than if you make it a bolt-in which makes getting the diff out easier.
Have a look at what Total Chaos offers for the IFS trucks.
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
A welded in lower arm brace would make diff removal (and in general underside access) tougher. It would make removing the front cross member mandatory, which is a bolt-on piece from Toyota anyway. The best way to do it is weld on the OEM tabs from a SAS'ed truck and use the stock front brace on the back, like Grim here on the forum did. You get a substantial brace and still it bolts in. Second best IMVHO is Sonoran Steel's brace, which is fastened with 4 x 5/16" or 3/8" (your choice) bolts. It's held up well on my truck to local wheeling and Rubicon. The only reason to weld it on in my view is if you are building a dedicated truck that requires unquestioned stoutness. But the level of quality of the bolt-on parts does vary, not all are created equal. Total Chaos recommends welding one in, but they are building pre-runner trucks that get jumped, which I think it beyond expected normal overland use... I honestly feel that a bolt-on brace is sufficient for typical mixed use type trucks. If you're running Hammers every weekend in your IFS, then weld the sucker on fer sure. The brace in my build is a protection from the very occasional situation that might otherwise tweak the frame, not a regularly stressed frame member. Does that make sense in my explanation?ntsqd said:
BTW, my Outlaw II with the 3.75" backspace are AR #62 in size 15"x7".