School me on LR3 TC

Ilatak

New member
So I've taken my LR3 out offroading last weekend and was fairly impressed with overall perforce untill one hill made me think I am doing something wrong. Here are the setting - is fairly steep rocky hill 30 degrees up, slightly wet rocks. Two toyotas (locked rear diffs)in front of me and bunch of Jeeps got right up and I couldn't make it. The feeling is that TC cuts the power off to the tires just when you need it the most.

Here is my last mad attempt trying to make up the *******ty hill with a bit of too much speed and hitting a rim on a rock



DSC is Off
HDC is OFf
Rock Crawling mode On
Low Range engaged.
Tires: New Duratracks

In a previous attempts I've tried Mud and taking it nice and slow as I usually do but with same result:(

What can be done differently?
 

KyleT

Explorer
DSC DSC uses the brakes and powertrain torque control to help maintain the lateral stability of the vehicle. While the ignition is on the DSC function is permanently enabled unless selected off by the DSC switch. Even if DSC is deselected, driving manoeuvres with extreme yaw or lateral acceleration may trigger DSC activity to assist vehicle stability. DSC enhances driving safety in abrupt manoeuvres and in understeer or oversteer situations which may occur in a bend. The ABS module monitors the yaw rate and lateral acceleration of the vehicle, and the steering input, then selectively applies individual brakes and signals for powertrain torque adjustments to reduce understeer or oversteer. In general: in an understeering situation, the inner wheels are braked to counteract the yaw movement towards the outer edge of the bend; in an oversteering situation, the outer wheels are braked to prevent the rear end of the vehicle from pushing towards the outer edge of the bend. The ABS module monitors the tracking stability of the vehicle using inputs from the wheel speed sensors, the steering angle sensor and the yaw rate and lateral acceleration sensor. The tracking stability is compared with stored target data and, whenever the tracking stability deviates from the target data, the ABS module intervenes by applying the appropriate brakes. On vehicles with an automatic transmission, when the DSC function is active, the ABS module also signals the Transmission Control Module (TCM) to prevent gear shifts. If necessary, the ABS module also signals:
- The ECM, to reduce engine torque.
- The transfer box control module, to adjust the locking torque of the center differential.
- The rear differential control module, to adjust the locking torque of the rear differential. The DSC function overrides the differential locking torque requests from the terrain response system.

ETC ETC attempts to optimize forward traction by reducing engine torque or braking a spinning wheel until it regains grip. ETC is activated if an individual wheel speed is above that of the vehicle reference speed (positive slip) and the brake pedal is not pressed. The spinning wheel is braked, allowing the excess torque to be transmitted to the non spinning wheels through the drive line. If necessary, the ABS module also sends a high speed CAN bus message to the ECM to request a reduction in engine torque. Torque reduction requests are for either a slow or fast response: a slow response requests a reduction of throttle angle (4.0L and 4.4L only); a fast response requests an ignition cut-off (4.0L and 4.4L) or a fuel cut-off (2.7L Diesel). When the DSC function is selected off with the DSC switch, the engine torque reduction feature is disabled. On vehicles with an automatic transmission, when the ETC function is active the ABS module also signals the TCM to prevent gear shifts.
How it all works.


It looks like you simply don't have traction. Your truck weighs a lot more than the other ones, tire choice makes a huge difference. The dura track is a mild tire for slick muddy climbs.

I also assume you don't have the hd package with the rear locker. Probably not a factor in this situation though.

Lr3's typically crawl pretty slow up stuff. You have to keep moderate throttle and let the terrain response do its thing.

You can improve the ETC system by flushing the brakes and running a good high quality brake fluid. I like castrol GTLMA. Braided brake lines can also increase the effectiveness of the system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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nwoods

Expedition Leader
EDIT: Kyle, I see that you edited your post while I was composing mine.

Ilatak, it appears that you didn't employ the very necessary "Steady.Gentle.Throttle.Pressure" technique. A slight amount of throttle, without modulation, allows the TC time to figure out which wheel has traction, divert power to it, and engage forward motion again. It's absolutely critical that you use Steady. Gentle. Throttle. Pressure.

In that short video, looks to me like you let off the throttle just as the TC was about to kick in. Also, you were too fast for rock crawl mode. It works just fine at that speed, but its really designed to detect wheel spin around 3mph, not 20 mph. So instead of arresting wheel spin after one or two tire revolutions, your speed told it to allow 20 or more revolutions before it needs to do anything. Those are all totally unscientific approximate numbers, but I'll bet I'm pretty close, based on LOTS of seat time in similar circumstances.

For an interesting read on the methodology and operational objectives of the TC programing, read this article:
https://lr3tips.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/terrain_response_paper-official.pdf

I have that document and others posted here: https://lr3tips.wordpress.com/owners-manuals/
 

nwoods

Expedition Leader
BTW, as you'll learn in the document I posted, MUD is the WRONG mode for seeking maximum traction aide. Mud-N-Ruts actually allows quite a lot of wheel spin
 

jerdog53

Explorer
I was going to say what nwoods said "Steady.Gentle.Throttle.Pressure" just when your gut tells you to get off the gas because the wheels are spinning is exactly the time you need to keep moderate fuel flowing and let the ETC do its thing.
 

getlost4x4

Expedition Leader
My buddy has an LR3 with the HD package. It does fairly well as a whole. It a little coaching (he's not very experienced yet in technical wheeling) he learned how to crawl up stuff, when to bump up stuff and how his LR3 performs. The LR3's are pretty impressive. But having a Disco with Traction control, center diff lock and rear ARB locker, makes it so much easier. I bet an LR3 with a ARB rear locker would be amazing
 

Ilatak

New member
Thanks for reply guys. Though the video shows me going fast I can assure you I didn't not let go of the throttle. Also this was last attempt after slow and gentle tryes. Vehicle in front of me LC80 with same tires and rear locking diff didn't have any trouble at all and it is comparable size and weight.

nwood, thanks for linked article I'll give it a read. Also ARB rear locker is tempting:)
 

getlost4x4

Expedition Leader
I've never owned a selectable locker before. But I can say its fantastic. Set up is a bit of a pain. But once you use it the first time and walk up an obstacle 10x's easier then before you had it, you'll wonder what you did without one for so long.
 

dwvninety

Observer
I own a 2012 Jeep JKU Rubicon with front and rear e-locker, a 2006 LR3 HD center and rear e-locker, and a 2003 Disco with a 2004 Disco center locking differential transfer case and shifter, Detroit True-Tracs front and Detroit Lockers rear. As nwoods explained "Steady.Gentle.Throttle.Pressure" technique is what is needed. I currently own all 3 (not owned) and take them off-road. I was currently in Utah May 2015 doing Hotel Rock on my 2003 Disco with 2 LR3's non-HD and I was impressed at the capability. My 2003 Disco had a harder time on the trail than the stock LR3's.

i-CBrrSrm-XL.jpgi-M59TJq3-X3.jpg
 
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KyleT

Explorer
Wheelbase, weight distribution, wheel track all could affect why the lc made it up and you didn't. That looks pretty slick.

A rear locker completely changes how a truck performs in low traction situations. Although TC does an adequate job, it has limitations, which you won't know till you hit them.
 

nwoods

Expedition Leader
Grass/gravel setting more appropriate for that obstacle? DSC off of course. Just curious what people would use.

No, grass/gravel/snow will throttle you down, retard the throttle, and up shift into a higher gear than you might want.

Rock crawl is the right mode, just has to be driven a little differently
 

racehorse

Adventurer
When I first joined my rover club the president took me under his wing - thankfully - and helped me understand my LR3. I think the most important piece of advice he gave me (IMO) was when approaching obstacles or hill climbs as nathan said keep a steady throttle, in fact, more specifically keep the throttle between 1,500-2,000 RPM. It may sounds simplistic but I have always had great success with that mantra - I approach obstacles (most) with that 1,500-2,000 RPM and don't release the gas unless I lose traction. Just keeping it on the gas in that range gives the computers and brakes and TC the time it needs to think through an obstacle. Just a suggestion. Maybe that mud was just really worked over at the point and nothing would have helped.
 

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