Subaru - All Season vs All Terrain

[Rosco862003]

I realize that this is a forum based on overland travel through varied and oftentimes rugged terrain so the question posed in the subject line may seem a bit pointless. It would seem that the easy answer would be to put some all terrains on and call it a day. However, After driving roughly 1000 miles this past weekend in my Impreza 2.5i, I realized that I quite like getting upwards of 30 mpg on the hwy and is one of the biggest factors in my choosing a Subaru over something with a 2 speed transfer case. On this trip I went down a few FS roads in the Harmon Den area of the Smokey Mtns and thoroughly enjoyed the scenery, and is my main draw in driving these types of roads. After pulling off to the side to do some exploring i hopped back in my car and was presented with a somewhat steep gravel strewn incline. I currently have Michelin Hydro-edge tires that are roughly 26" in diameter (215/60R16). I'm not sure how much they weigh, but I did notice that it was awfully difficult to get going up the hill and the smell of burning clutch was disconcerting to say the least. I eventually got up and only had a minimal amount of wheelspin. Through sand, snow, mud and gravel, I've never gotten a flat or stuck and despite wanting General Grabbers, I can't say that I find a need for them. I don't go offroad for the sake of going offroad, and although all terrains look absolutely awesome on Subaru's I think my purpose would be strictly for looks. I drive my vehicle about 20,000 miles a year and although a good bit of that is done off the beaten path, I'd say I only drove 10 miles off the pavement during that 1000 mile trip. My last beach trip made it apparent that although I don't go offroad, there are certain times when you are presented with a challenge that you didn't necessarily ask for and it's nice to have all the help you can get, which is why I'm still considering the Grabber's.

My problem is this. The (215/65R16-27") General Grabbers weigh 28 lbs each, vs 21 lbs for the (205/70R16-27.3") General Altimax RT43 tires that I'm considering as an alternative. Both have glowing reviews, and the Altimax seems to really be priced quite a bit lower than what it's worth based on the reviews. When I had a Miata, when I took off the 17" rims that came on there and replaced them with factory lightweight 14" rims the car was transformed and much easier and satisfying to drive. Based off this experience, my biggest reservation about putting the Grabber's on a N/A 4 cylinder Impreza is the decrease in mileage and performance it would bring about, not to mention the added wear it might bring to steering components and ball joints. So I'm reaching out to the Expo world to see if anyone has been in my situation and asked themselves if they REALLY needed an All terrain or if they went that direction based strictly on looks and the 2% chance that they might need them? Also if anyone has any negative experiences with a heavier meatier tire such as decreased mpg, etc?

Tire Rack review: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/videoDisplay.jsp?ttid=178&videoID=221

 

[tarditi]

That difference in tire weight is in carcass, tread thickness, and reinforcement material.

All terrains, generally, have much stronger sidewalls to resist punctures and abrasion, and wider lugs to shed dirt and some mud (not compared to a mud terrain tread!)
All seasons have more tread siping for wet traction and snow surfaces.

You may have some minor fuel consumption change, but I don't expect it will be major - just a little more weight and perhaps different rolling resistance - the biggest impact you can make to fuel efficiency is changing the diameter of the tires or really changing the mass of the wheel/tire combo (orders of magnitude difference, not a couple pounds). You see this often with people who go from lighter duty (sometimes stamped) steel wheels and stock tires to heavy-duty steel wheels and oversize rock crawling tires on their 4x4s.

You can also look to Yokohama geolanders, and if you really want a high performing tire, go with Hakkas (Nokian Hakkapeliitta)

 

[JAvendan]

i would just add... depending if you have TMPS sensors, you might want to consider a second set of wheels and tires.

i had an '05 forester 2.5x and now a '12 outback 2.5 prem.

i drive a lot!!! at least 24k miles pretty much all highway and would hate to lose 2-3mpgs.

when i have my roof basket up i lose 3-4mpgs.

my buddy has an '04 wrx and installed a lift with grabbers and he lost 3-4mpgs and had to drive mostly in 4th gear.

he recently got a cobb accessport and some goodies and can comfortably drive in 5th again.

i just think that rolling around on AT tires with the NA 2.5 is going to get old real quick.

joel

 

[WagoneerSX4]

You definitely notice the extra weight of A/T tires, especially with an NA 4 banger. I even went down a size in wheels and my aftermarket wheels are MUCH lighter but the tire weight makes up the difference and then some.

But the first time you air down and start driving over jagged rocks you'll thank yourself for getting a thicker sidewalled tire.

 

[Hondaslayer]

I disagree,

I had 215/75-15 Grabbers on my 96 Outback with an anemic 2.2 litre engine. I noticed zero difference in acceleration and gas mileage. A bit more road noise and much improved off road traction was all I noticed.

GG AT2 are the go to tire for Subarus for a reason (because we are all cheap!)

 

[WMDunkin]

I love my Geolanders! I haven't notice any real change in MPG or acceleration (WRX) but has preformed amazing in snow, sand, mud, rain and the occasional boost moment ;-)

 

[WagoneerSX4]

I think the size difference is the most noticeable rather than weight actually. I went from a 25.5" tire to a 28" tire with the same gearing.

 

[WagoneerSX4]

I love my Geolanders! I haven't notice any real change in MPG or acceleration (WRX) but has preformed amazing in snow, sand, mud, rain and the occasional boost moment ;-)

Geo's are definitely a lighter tire, more of a street tire than a real A/T. I had those before my grabbers and they were fantastic on the street. Quieter than my original tires.

 

[libarata]

I have yet to get into a situation where I wished I had ATs. The time I stuck in some mud, I was beyond hope of self recovery! I have Kelly Explorer+'s on my 99 Forester now, and they do damn well. Though, for some reason, I popped one yesterday, to come out to a flat tire today. the grabbers may be in my future!

 

[machine1]

I don't always off-road, but when I do, I'm glad I'm on A/T tires.

My sidewalls do not like me when I go on the trails.


I punctured one of the stock Geolandars in a gravel parking lot. I have Coopers Discoverer AT3's now and they can take a beating.

 

[Hondaslayer]

I think the size difference is the most noticeable rather than weight actually. I went from a 25.5" tire to a 28" tire with the same gearing.

On my drive home I was thinking about that very thing! Going to a 28 on a Forester or Outback is not a huge change, but if I put those on my Legacy I would probably notice a difference.

 

[WagoneerSX4]

It's a trade off you can't avoid. Going up to 28" tire and 15" wheel was the best thing I did for off roading. Airing down to 18psi with a big sidewall nets you huge amounts of traction you just don't get from a low-profile. It's something you won't notice unless you're on some pretty technical terrain.

But then your gearing is higher for said terrain and you end up destroying your clutch. Not to mention your drivetrain having to bump start if you're stuck on an incline or going over a rock or obstacle. It's also pretty annoying on the highway when your top gear is now useless.

If they would just make cars with low-range this problem would be solved!!

 

[oldblue]

It sounds like there will be very little benefit for you to switch to an all-terrain. 1st gear in a Suby is barely sufficient for slow speed and/or steep inclines. The clutch is quickly overwhelmed, adding weight and potentially additional diameter at the wheels will only make this worse.

Personally, I would only add all-terrains if I was consistently getting flats or loosing traction to the point where it impacted my travel.

 

[Rosco862003]

Given what I use my car for and based on the responses here, I think my best bet would be to stay with an all season, in a moderate size (>27"). I'm thinking at some point down the road that I may look into something like a Cherokee that I can build up for tougher trails, and where the daily driver considerations can be tossed out of the window. I appreciate the responses as they've been very helpful.

 

[WagoneerSX4]

Probably a good choice. When you get down to brass taxes you don't build up a Subaru to be a rock crawler, you build it up to be a good "do everything go everywhere" vehicle with the majority of that being Tarmac. If you bought it to be a off road monster you bought the wrong car.

I always have to remind myself of that with my SX4.