Thinking about "sarging" my truck.

[BIGdaddy]

thinking of trimming my hardtop to look like the "J8 sarge" concept vehicle. i have two kids and i need a better way to get them into the truck, and i REALLY like the expo feel it gives the JK concept.

-i would start by trimming the top of its side windows leaving large openings.

-i would leave the rear support (very thick and strong) and rear glass intact and the material behind the doors to allow the hard doors to seal properly.

-i would then re-finish (fiberglass and resin? or maybe rubber door edging?) the edges of the new cut and install attachment points for the soft roll-up panels that would cover the openings.

any thoughts? here's a picture of the sarge setup(i would keep my rear window, remember), rather than soft-topping it:

here's my rig, just for reference...

 

[Lynn]

thinking of trimming my hardtop to look like the "J8 sarge" concept vehicle. i have two kids and i need a better way to get them into the truck, and i REALLY like the expo feel it gives the JK concept.

Long before I had seen the ‘Sarge’ Jeep, I had been doing sketches of this approach for my dream jeep.
Personally, I don’t think I would like the looks of replacing the rear windows with canvas, and leaving the rear door, but YMMV. I imagine you may not like the looks of my version, either.

And I’m just talking cosmetics here. There are far more important issues, right?

 

[BIGdaddy]

Long before I had seen the ‘Sarge’ Jeep, I had been doing sketches of this approach for my dream jeep.
Personally, I don’t think I would like the looks of replacing the rear windows with canvas, and leaving the rear door, but YMMV. I imagine you may not like the looks of my version, either.

And I’m just talking cosmetics here. There are far more important issues, right?

love to hear your design idea...i was just going to leave the rear glass cuz i'm set on leaving the rear support corners at this point. I could just fab up an internal support based off of the roll bar and just loose the whole thing...

it only rains 20-30 days out of the year in san diego, so i'm not to worried about water, my only concern is noise, and structural rigidity (don't want a floppy noodle top when i'm done)

 

[madizell]

Try first simply removing the side windows and drive around in it, see if you like it. Canvas side panels won't seal well and will be about the same as going without glass.

I would hesitate to chop the glass top unless you have two of them and don't mind sacrificing one to an experiment. The tops are costly, and they are molded out of multiple pieces. If you cut away material around the windows, you will probably find that there are two edges to finish, not one, as I believe the tops have an inside and an outside which is bonded together at the window and door lines. Cutting away this molded and bonded edge will very likely remove much of the rigidity of the top, making it unsuitable to carry a load. It may also flex like crazy, leading to cracks in short order. If you remove structural molding and bonds, you will need to replace that structure with something else just as strong on the new perimeter.

My experience with Jeep glass tops comes from those made for CJ-7's, which to my eye look remarkably like in construction to those for YJ's and TJ's. I have not paid attention to newer models. The old CJ tops were chopper gun moldings made from expanded resin, and were not easy to repair. I had only limited luck getting anything to stick to the top when making repairs, and I tried everything from epoxy and JB Weld (about the same thing) to tool resin and woven glass mat. The problem was that the original top fiberglass was chalky in texture and not overly strong so that repairs didn't like to stick, or would simply cause failure next to the area of repair. After several attempts, I more or less gave up on the notion that it wasn't worth the effort to fix small areas of damage (broken out rear glass hinge).

Before attempting what you suggest, I would research the construction of the newer tops. You might even try sourcing one from a junk yard, even a damaged one, just to have one to cut up and patch to see what works and what doesn't before you chop up an expensive hard top.

 

[1leg]

I would really dig that kind of top for my 2dr.

JD

 

[BIGdaddy]

Try first simply removing the side windows and drive around in it, see if you like it. Canvas side panels won't seal well and will be about the same as going without glass.

I would hesitate to chop the glass top unless you have two of them and don't mind sacrificing one to an experiment. The tops are costly, and they are molded out of multiple pieces. If you cut away material around the windows, you will probably find that there are two edges to finish, not one, as I believe the tops have an inside and an outside which is bonded together at the window and door lines. Cutting away this molded and bonded edge will very likely remove much of the rigidity of the top, making it unsuitable to carry a load. It may also flex like crazy, leading to cracks in short order. If you remove structural molding and bonds, you will need to replace that structure with something else just as strong on the new perimeter.

My experience with Jeep glass tops comes from those made for CJ-7's, which to my eye look remarkably like in construction to those for YJ's and TJ's. I have not paid attention to newer models. The old CJ tops were chopper gun moldings made from expanded resin, and were not easy to repair. I had only limited luck getting anything to stick to the top when making repairs, and I tried everything from epoxy and JB Weld (about the same thing) to tool resin and woven glass mat. The problem was that the original top fiberglass was chalky in texture and not overly strong so that repairs didn't like to stick, or would simply cause failure next to the area of repair. After several attempts, I more or less gave up on the notion that it wasn't worth the effort to fix small areas of damage (broken out rear glass hinge).

Before attempting what you suggest, I would research the construction of the newer tops. You might even try sourcing one from a junk yard, even a damaged one, just to have one to cut up and patch to see what works and what doesn't before you chop up an expensive hard top.

great advice as always. good idea about just popping the window out first...

as far as the structure of the top, directly above and below the window is single ply, and would be easily cut through, and i doubt is very structural.

in front and back of the window is another story, though and I have been tapping and measuring to see where cuts would go.

thanks!

 

[Lynn]

love to hear your design idea...

OK, you asked for it. I dream a lot.

Basically, I wanted a roof that would support some weight, on a convertible, that would not have a lot of road noise on the highway or leak or let dust in or…

My first dream was to have the back 2/3 of the top permanent (rubber mounted to a full cage), built out of aluminum tread plate or something, with a removable targa section (like Sarge appears to have) and removable hard sides and back. But then where do you put the hard sides when you take ‘em off? (Assuming you are out in the boonies)

Next thought would be the same top, with canvas sides and back. However, I really doubt if I could build something that would keep the rain out, let alone dust, noise, cold… Of course, the targa section could be canvas, as well, but making it so that it keeps the rain out at highway speeds would be a real challenge, wouldn’t it?

And, of course, either version would have to have half-doors, preferably with fiberglass upper sections.

I think it would be so cool to have the windshield down, half doors, the targa off, the sides and back off, and still have a roof rack over the back part. I guess that's pretty much Sarge with a load-bearing roof.

 

[BIGdaddy]

nice, lynn. i like your ideas. storage would be the biggest concern with the first option, but it's solvable, i think.

i like the idea of the canvas/sunbrella sides because it does stow/convert so easily.

check out the sarge though, as it actually does have a load bearing roof...sweet!

it has crossmembers that bolt onto the roll bar that also bolt through the roof and tie into the tie down rails on top...i'll find you some pics.

here you go, look at the upper right corner, you can see a crossmember tying into the top of the roll bar.

 

[ExpoMike]

I would say, try to pop the side windows out. My guess, having not looked at one, would be it's a lip around the edge with the rubber gasket having a groove that sits on this lip. If that is the case, then you can get some edge molding which could attach to this lip, to give it a clean, finished look and would not allow your kids to cut themselves on the raw edge.

Nice thing, if this is the case, you can always go back to stock if you needed to. Might have to buy new seals but I would thing that would be it.