Tire height or weight, which will be more noticable?

[xlcaferacer]

Been a reader for a while but this is my first post. I've been wandering for some time about what is more of a power killer with tires; Height or Weight? Whenever people talk about gearing for tires they talk about the height and that 4:88's work with 33's, 5:29's work with 35's ect., ect., but nobody ever mentions the tire's weight. Right now I am shopping for tires (obviously) and I like several different tires. My truck is an '89 extra cab with 4:88's and a Detroit in the rear, and currently on 33x9.50r15 bfg at's. I'm not worried about which tires you may or may not think will fit as I have no problems trimming and pounding to gain a little extra clearance.

With that said, I live in a ski town in Colorado that gets 250" - 300" of snow a year, so Ice driving is a huge consideration in my tire choices as I can only afford one set of tires. So most mud tires are out of the question. I am very happy with the BFG at's and this is the fourth vehicle I have had a set on. I have also run the Toyo open country at's (wore fast , and terrible on the ice) old BFG mt's, and Swamper radials ( all in the pizza cutter width of 9.50" - 10.50"). My truck is my DD and my summertime weekend explorer and home away from home thanks to the Wildernest I picked up this summer. So long story short I want to go to a 12.50" wide tire for a little more stability on the trail. I am perfectly happy with 33's but my top tire choice is the Bfg at's which have worked well for my style wheeling in the past. Problem is do I go with a 33" @ 53 lbs or the 35" which weighs one pound more at 54 lbs (according to bfg). Other tires I was initially considering that where 33's were Goodyear Duratracs (2 ply sidewall so they got nixed early on), ******** Cepek F-C II's @ 54 lbs, ******** Cepek M/T's @ 57 lbs, or BFG M/t's with sipeing at 58 lbs.

So again the question is: (Knowing that less weight is better for my front end components in general) Will I notice more of a power loss with a heavier 33" tall tire, or a lighter 35" tall tire? I am definately leaning toward the 35" BFG a/t's for an extra inch of clearance at the cost of one pound and $10 a tire (or more compared to the other 33's) Thanks in advance for the input, I look forward to your thoughts on this matter.

 

[bimmeryota]

Assuming the width is he same between the two I would say that the 35 is going to give you the bigger drop. I'm not sure what engine you have but it will be much worse on the long grades with a 22re with the 35s. I may be downsizing to 32s for the weight but may just go with pizza cutter 33s. Mine could be for sale soon.
I would stick with the 33s to preserve the components in your front end IMO.

 

[downhill]

The small weight differences you quoted will be far over shadowed by the effect of height. Height of course will directly affect final gearing. I would not consider weight a determining factor with the choices you presented.

When moving from stock to a considerably bigger tire, you usually have to over correct the gearing a bit to compensate that big of a weight change. That's usually a difference of several pounds though.

 

[escadventure]

Although the weight of your unsprung rotating mass will have a significant effect, one pound difference will not be noticeable. However, your combination of extra height and weight will probably have an impact on performance.

 

[1911]

Height directly effects final gearing and hence power you (don't!) feel to go up hills, tow a trailer, pass, etc. The taller (tire diameter) you go, the lower the rpm for a given speed but the less power.

But in my experience, weight is the thing that will kill your fuel economy, because tire and wheel weight is unsprung weight that must be be spun-up all over again every time you accelerate at all.

Any change in final gearing you make be it tire diameter, diff gears, or transmission gears is a compromise. To get the most out of the compromise, you must decide what is most important to you; ground clearance, power, cost, reliability & longevity, fuel economy, etc.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

1 lb of reciprocating weight is equal to 10 lbs of gross weight is what I was told years ago building sand bikes

 

[xlcaferacer]

Thank you for your great answers. I knew that height would be a factor but I also thought that weight would be equally so. I guess I need to make height my first priority as I will be carrying a fair bit of weight when out traveling and I do have the 22re. Thanks again, I guess I get to do more shopping now with my new info.

 

[downhill]

Thank you for your great answers. I knew that height would be a factor but I also thought that weight would be equally so. I guess I need to make height my first priority as I will be carrying a fair bit of weight when out traveling and I do have the 22re. Thanks again, I guess I get to do more shopping now with my new info.

Weight is a factor that too often gets overlooked. You are right to question it, but in your case a difference of 1 pound in over 50 is less than 2%. The construction of the tire or a few pounds of pressure could over ride that small difference. If you were talking 10 pounds, that's another matter.

Regarding your initial statements about tire choice, consider this. Narrow tires are hard to beat in the conditions you face. In my opinion going to a 12.5 for more stability will turn out to be a disappointment. If you have been running tires with a C or D rating, you might consider trying E's in something like a 255/85-16. That is a 33" tire that should provide a lot of stability, good ice performance, and good road manners. Having your tires center siped will also improve the grip in slippery conditions. I would not run anything but skinny E's on my truck.

 

[Derek24]

I feel both weight and height affect your ride. The more weight the harder it is on your brakes trying to stop that rolling mass. I agree with the above statements that sticking with a 33 would be the best. 35's tend to do more damage and lead to more modifications of your front end, the benefits of 35's are not great to go through all that trouble. Have you looked into Mickey Thompson's MTZ? The are sipped and have good reviews for ice and snow, also nice rid on the rode.

 

[ebg18t]

On my rover I installed a set of 285-65-18's that were 67#, they replaced a set of the same size (diff brand) tires that weighed 49#. The weight difference was super noticeable. I lost ~1.5mpg and both braking & acceleration were negatively impacted.

On my 4Runner tire weight was a huge deciding factor between my final 3 choices.

 

[riveroceanandmountain]

Just a thought..... I too live in a mtn town with tons of snow and ice..... and spent 60 days at ski hills last winter

I would never dream of driving in the winter on anything but true winter tires.... they are soooo much better on ice and snow than any other tire.

I just bought St Maxx's for my truck this spring.... very happy with..... and I just put Toyo GSi-5's on for the winter.... two sets of tires lasts twice as long!..... I kind of wish they didn't both wear out the same year.... but.... oh well

If you are planning on keeping the truck for 3-4 more years then winters are the best investment I think

In fact.... in BC now .... police can ticket you if you are not using proper winter tires.... and all seasons I hear no longer have the snow flake on them ...

just my .02

 

[ebg18t]

Just a thought..... I too live in a mtn town with tons of snow and ice..... and spent 60 days at ski hills last winter

I would never dream of driving in the winter on anything but true winter tires.... they are soooo much better on ice and snow than any other tire.

I just bought St Maxx's for my truck this spring.... very happy with..... and I just put Toyo GSi-5's on for the winter.... two sets of tires lasts twice as long!..... I kind of wish they didn't both wear out the same year.... but.... oh well

If you are planning on keeping the truck for 3-4 more years then winters are the best investment I think

In fact.... in BC now .... police can ticket you if you are not using proper winter tires.... and all seasons I hear no longer have the snow flake on them ...

just my .02

I 100% agree. Having lived in a MTn town at 9000' with snow on the ground for 4-5 months of the year snow tires will out perform the AT tire. But many people are looking for the compromise.. Ie the AT tire.

 

[xlcaferacer]

Like I said before, I can only afford one pair of tires so it has to be year round versatile. I have lived in this mountain Haven for 15 years and have never run winter specific tires. Even running a detroit locker in the rear of a couple of vehicles both past and present I have found that if you slow down and drive careful on the ice and coast through corners my Bfg AT's have been great. Would I let my wife drive my truck during the winter on the ice? Probably not, even if it had snow tires. Even if I could afford a set of snow/ice specific tires they would go on my wife's 4runner. I did put a pair of Hankook Dynapro atm rf10's on her 4runner and they are great on the snow and ice. However I am looking for something a little more agressive than the hankooks and a 3 ply sidewall is a must. I have decided a 33" tall tire is probably in my best interest as it will keep me in the proper powerband. Weight is still a consideration although not as much so now that I understand tire height is the major power robber. I would like to stick to c rated tires as I have 15" rims but maybe I should look for 16" tire sizes in the d range variety in order to open more options, even though I would have to buy rims, and tires for 16's are more $$. Maybe I will just stick to the Bfg's as they have treated me well in the past and are a lighter tire with a 3 ply sidewall and I have managed to get 45,000 out of the 2 pair I have kept around that long. Although the ******** Cepek Muddies look siped and just agressive enough. Hmmm... Thanks again for the input.

 

[SSF556]

Like I said before, I can only afford one pair of tires so it has to be year round versatile. I have lived in this mountain Haven for 15 years and have never run winter specific tires. Even running a detroit locker in the rear of a couple of vehicles both past and present I have found that if you slow down and drive careful on the ice and coast through corners my Bfg AT's have been great. Would I let my wife drive my truck during the winter on the ice? Probably not, even if it had snow tires. Even if I could afford a set of snow/ice specific tires they would go on my wife's 4runner. I did put a pair of Hankook Dynapro atm rf10's on her 4runner and they are great on the snow and ice. However I am looking for something a little more agressive than the hankooks and a 3 ply sidewall is a must. I have decided a 33" tall tire is probably in my best interest as it will keep me in the proper powerband. Weight is still a consideration although not as much so now that I understand tire height is the major power robber. I would like to stick to c rated tires as I have 15" rims but maybe I should look for 16" tire sizes in the d range variety in order to open more options, even though I would have to buy rims, and tires for 16's are more $$. Maybe I will just stick to the Bfg's as they have treated me well in the past and are a lighter tire with a 3 ply sidewall and I have managed to get 45,000 out of the 2 pair I have kept around that long. Although the ******** Cepek Muddies look siped and just agressive enough. Hmmm... Thanks again for the input.

Check out the GY Duratrac...they are lighter in weight and have the snowflake. They also have the holes for studs for ice....


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[downhill]

Like I said before, I can only afford one pair of tires so it has to be year round versatile. I have lived in this mountain Haven for 15 years and have never run winter specific tires. Even running a detroit locker in the rear of a couple of vehicles both past and present I have found that if you slow down and drive careful on the ice and coast through corners my Bfg AT's have been great. Would I let my wife drive my truck during the winter on the ice? Probably not, even if it had snow tires. Even if I could afford a set of snow/ice specific tires they would go on my wife's 4runner. I did put a pair of Hankook Dynapro atm rf10's on her 4runner and they are great on the snow and ice. However I am looking for something a little more agressive than the hankooks and a 3 ply sidewall is a must. I have decided a 33" tall tire is probably in my best interest as it will keep me in the proper powerband. Weight is still a consideration although not as much so now that I understand tire height is the major power robber. I would like to stick to c rated tires as I have 15" rims but maybe I should look for 16" tire sizes in the d range variety in order to open more options, even though I would have to buy rims, and tires for 16's are more $$. Maybe I will just stick to the Bfg's as they have treated me well in the past and are a lighter tire with a 3 ply sidewall and I have managed to get 45,000 out of the 2 pair I have kept around that long. Although the ******** Cepek Muddies look siped and just agressive enough. Hmmm... Thanks again for the input.

If you already know you like the BFGs, then just stick with them. You might try center siping them for the winter driving. It makes a difference. Machine siping is much more efficient than molded in siping.