to Diesel or not to???

[postalWagon]

I need some help, deciding what to do for a new engine. I have a AMC 232 petrol engine in my Jeep right now, it has about 3,000,000 miles on it with two rebuilds. I get about ~25mpg with a tf727 auto trans, and going easy on the skinny peddle. I would love to drop in a Diesel for the ease of fueling up, but I don't want to lose my slushbox.

Sd33 or Cummins b3.3
Or something else.

 

[Doctor W]

A Torqueflite 727 might be able to handle a small diesel......I used to have a really old (1984) Range Rover 3.5V8 auto and it was factory fitted with a Chrysler Torqueflite (although it may have been a 904 - I'm not sure) and my model RR had a VM Motori diesel as an option ( about 2.5L and about 120/130 hp).....you need to ask auto transmission guys.....and remember that diesels put out heaps of torque.

They use current VM Motori diesels in Export JK and Military J8 Jeeps, they're 2.8L CRD Turbo 4cyl about 210 hp. ..............Also used the old 2.5 VM's in Export XJ's.

I think a 3.3L Cummins might be too much torque for the Postal Jeep and the Torqueflite......I don't know the other engine.

The current VM autos run a Mercedes-Benz 6 speed auto..... or are detuned to run with the current Jk 5 speed manual.

 

[ReconH3]

Do not get a VM diesel. It's one of the most unreliable engines out there. All the money you are trying to save will go down the drain with repairs to maintain the VM motor.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

Sent from my iPhone

 

[ReconH3]

There were a couple of years that you could get CJs with an Isuzu 4 cylinder diesel. Much better option, and way more reliable.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

Sent from my iPhone

 

[wADVr]

Have nothing as far as diesel advice but unless there are more than one version of the 727 (other than bellhousings etc) I wouldnt worry about its strength, Those trannies were in almost all dodge light trucks, vans and even class A motorhomes untill the 90s. Have always heard the general concensus was them being pretty bulletproof.

That said if you are looking for soley more MPG and you are already getting 25 with an inefficient auto trans I would maybe think about just dropping in a trans with a lockup converter and an overdrive such as a 700r4 or IIRC 46r (94ish ram transmission)

Not to derail your thread but just a thought. Im sure swapping the trans is more work than the engine considering the drivetrain modifications etc.

 

[postalWagon]

The SD33 is a Nissan 3.6 liter diesel built off of a 232/258 amc engine pattern. There is a turbo version that went in to some IH Scouts or Nissan Patrols. The CJ-10 has one with a tf727, but I don't need a full truck just to do an engine swap.

My reason for wanting a diesel is to have the ability to run a broader number of fuels with a minimum amount of effort. It also helps that there is lots of torque to use during hill climbs.

Would anyone know where to find more information on this kind of conversion?

 

[Nikson]

Depending on what you really want out of your vehicle, diesel is a good way to go.

Personally, I am digging through all possible forums & info on diesel swap for my LJ. I am not really happy with the MPG I am getting with the 4.0l & my 35" tires.

Currently seeing possibility of few Japanese diesels, such as 2L, 3L, 1KZ-T, 1HZ, and both Toyota & Nissan 4.2L diesels...

If you going to do a swap, might as well as do it with the proper & reliable engine.

Good Luck

 

[postalWagon]

The Jeep as it is:


After a short trip up Palomar Mountain

 

[truck mechanic]

IH only offered an auto behind the oil burner for one year, the auto just robbed to much of the power to make the truck driveable, after the first year you could only get sticks, turbos where only offered in 1980, the last year of the Scout. Most of the 6000 Scouts made that year had the oil burners. But good luck finding one.
Paul

 

[SChandler]

A version of the 727 trans was used behind the 5.9l Cummins motors in Dodge pickups in 89 and 90 (also, the 4 speed autos that were used from 91-up were based on the 727), so a 727 should be capable of supporting either of those diesel motors. The 727 you currently have, however, will need to be worked over so that it can handle the much lower RPM duty that it will have to handle behind a diesel vs. the gas engine in it currently. I'm not sure what the specifics would be, but torque coverter stall speed, upshift rpm, and line pressures would need to be adjusted to deal with the lower rpm of a diesel engine.

 

[postalWagon]

Does anybody know anything about Detroit Diesel?

 

[gavan]

I went through this with my Jeep. There are choices out there, but a lot of them stink. The ones I can think of off of the top of my head:

Nissan/Scout SD33 -

Outdated. Underpowered. Not much parts availability. Can be had with a 727, but it makes it even sluggy-er. Turbos were there mainly to clean up emissions, not to make more power. They are all slow.

VW 1.6/1.9 -

ACME has cheap adapters. I believe you can use a Toyota or, actually, a Volvo automatic. The 1.6 is way underpowered as well, but it could work if you keep it 2wd and the motor was in good shape. The 1.9 makes a bunch more power, but you have to deal with the electronics or convert it to manual injection for more $$$. Decent parts availability.

Mercedes OM 4 or 5 cyl -

Some of them are on the weak side, some of the turbo 5 cyls are actually pretty decent. Odd front sump that can be a pain to work around. 4x4labs has an adapter to run a GM manual transmission, stands to reason an automatic would work as well. The mercedes automatic is not bad either. There are a bunch of these cars still on the road and parts are around.

Detroit -

You will be dealing with the 4 cyl or less motors, even a 4-53 will come close to crushing the front of your Jeep. I have seen some 3-53 and 2-71 conversions that look pretty cool, but you need to know a lot about detroits, good mechanics that understand the old detroits just are not around as much any more. There were some automotive bellhousing adapters out there for a transmission. I would avoid them unless you know what you are doing. Parts are drying up as well.

VW-Motori -

Run.

Isuzu -

The 4BD1t is a good motor, somewhere between the 4BT and the 4A power wise. Good parts availability. Good transmissions, and adapters out there to go to the GM style transmissions. Lots of them out there in delivery trucks, parts are easy to find.

Mitsubitst-Fuso -

They have some 4 cyls like the Isuzu 4bd1t, but parts are just not here. Good if they are running, but last I checked rebuilds are 2.5k for just the parts. Like the SD33, just not a base for them in this country.

Cummins -

4a -

Good little motor, phoenix castings makes a good SAE4 adapter, parts availability is good from Cummins, but can be sketchy from anyone else. They were never put in road vehicles, so you are on your own with an accessory drive, unlike all the rest of the motors listed. They have an alternator, but AC, power steering, etc. is going to have to be fabricated.

4BT -

I am a little biased because this is the motor I want with, but I think it has some really good things going for it:

My accessory drive is from a 89 Dodge Cummins truck. Parts are easy to find.

It makes good power, and it is easy to turn up if you want more. Most of the modifications are well proven from the big brother, the 6BT.

My adapter is a factory Dodge adapter, so flywheel, starter, etc. is all very available.


For my application, the 4BT was an easy somewhat bolt in swap with good parts availability, which is what I was looking for. With some more creative work any of those motors would work just fine.


Besides, a 4BT looks great in a Jeep engine bay!