To have a safe, or not?

rossvtaylor

Adventurer
Hi all,

Most of our travel, in the next couple of years, will be domestic. So, we're planning a safe in our ambulance conversion. I've read a few build threads where owners incorporated one and it seems like a good idea... for domestic travel. But, what about border crossings and internationally? I searched and found no comments... but, of course, the word "safe" is in just about every overlanding thread...

We're wondering what experiences others have had with a safe or hidden compartment inside your rig while crossing borders.

Thanks much... and "safe" travels (see, now this thread will show up with all the others). :)

Ross and Kara
 

Maninga

Adventurer
We plan on two safes. First hidden, but not too hard to get to, with a few thousand, some electronics and probably our main passports. If someone holds us up, this'll be the one we open.

Second will be smaller and more hidden/harder to get to. Will keep backup passports (we'll both be travelling with passports from two countries each), more cash, other documents.

Hope to never need being worried about it, but better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
 

pugslyyy

Expedition Vehicle Engineer Guy
I'm a bigger fan of concealed storage than secured storage, unless the secured storage is used as a diversion that you keep high dollar items in (cameras, phones, etc)

I think the most important thing, if you have a truly hidden place, is to keep only stuff there that won't get you in trouble with the law. Documents, copies of documents, a little cash, maybe a memory stick with other info on it.
 

rossvtaylor

Adventurer
Maninga, except for the dual passport part, that's sort of what we were planning. Although the second location might be just a hidden compartment like pugslyyy refers to. I am a fan of those as well.

We certainly won't have anything illegal in either spot. I guess I'm just wondering if that's ever been a problem for people at border crossings or in other countries. Their presence raising suspicion, even if they don't have anything inappropriate? I assume at a border crossing or something you would be required to open it. I've never read anyone's experiences with that though.

On a rig like ours (not just mine and Kara's, I mean the collective group here) with added water and fuel tanks, extra compartments, and all of that I'm guessing we'll routinely end up at "secondary inspection" at any border crossing. Do those who have safes or hidden compartments, at that point, volunteer their location and contents? Or just if they're found?
 
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fiddypal

Adventurer
Only thing i would worry about is declaring everything at the border. Pretty sure the limit leaving or entering USA is 10k USD before you have to report it. I certainly would not offer up that you have a safe unless specifically asked as it would probably raise suspicion. But if your not doing anything wrong the worst thats going to happen is you waste time at a border inspection and get to show off your cool hiding spot to the border guards, hopefully they will think its cool and let you be on your way.

I had a friend unknowingly park behind a bank when traveling cross country in his converted white panel van at night time to sleep. Neighbors saw a white panel van with someone moving around inside and not getting out and called the cops. Needless to say he nearly **** himself when he was ordered out of the car at gun point, but after he explained to the cop he was on a road trip and started giving him the grand tour of his van (fridge, running water, bed, etc... it was really nice setup) the cop actually called in some other officers on shift so he could show them the van he thought it was so cool. Then told my friend to circle the block next time and make sure he wasn't behind a bank before going to bed! LOL
 

pugslyyy

Expedition Vehicle Engineer Guy
You are probably asking... what does this have to do with safes?
Well, more importantly beyond my "Macgvyerness" I have the "TRACTOR FUND"!!! What is the tractor fund? Well, it is time to "wake up and smell the coffee"! I/you need a safe because If we get stuck, stranded, or generally f*cked in a large adventure rig... we NEED A BUTT LOAD OF CASH to save our bacon! Don't expect some "home boy" to come by with his F350 and pull you out... IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN! You will need a TRACTOR!Like I have said before, my truck has a KILLER 4x4 driveline... AND... I am still making sure that I have a FAT TRACTOR FUND!Because if you don't have money for the tractor... GAME OVER (Especially in Mexico, leave your vehicle... don't expect much left when you get back)!
So do you need a safe??? YUP! With a wad of cash!

I agree, but I don't have a tractor fund - I have a bulldozer fund. My last stuck required a D5. :)
 

sheep_dog

Observer
Having a safe in a vehicle is a good idea, especially if you carry a firearm. I keep a small safe in all of my vehicles, and I keep the safe out of sight. Its a good place to keep valuables and such if you stop for a swim or some other fun activity. If someone breaks into your vehicle and steals your firearm, you did your due diligence to keep that firearm secure. A lot of times just the safe it self is a good visual deterrent. Most people breaking into cars do not have the time the fiddle around trying to open a safe, its usually a "smash and grab". This is just my two cents from what I have seen.
 

chet6.7

Explorer
"Some states have laws about hidden compartments",a spin off of the war on drugs.From what I just read drugs do not have to be found to be guilty.
 

Herbie

Rendezvous Conspirator
This story has absolutely zero bearing on your question, but it's fun for me to tell:

When I bought the "donor" GTRV camper van that provided the pop-top, tent, and a few other bits for my rig, I purchased it in Vancouver, BC. It was a ratted-out 1995 Safari conversion - 380,000km, no interior carpeting, the whole floor (badly) covered in brush-on bedliner, and stripped of almost all "camper" goodness save for the stuff that was hard-bolted on. It was a pile of crap, but I didn't care so long as I could drive it home to SoCal and strip off the pop-top and tent. Given my intentions, I hadn't done more than a cursory inspection of the rest of the van. I confirmed that it was mechanically running, after a fashion, and that the parts I cared about were intact and in good condition.

I paid cash, then drove it to the border and sat in line at the border crossing. The Vancouver, BC border crossing is a busy place with long lines, and they enforce a "no idling" zone, so you have a lot of time sitting in your vehicle with the engine off, waiting for the line to move up in "sections". As such, I had plenty of time to sit in the driver's seat and look around at what I'd just bought. After some time, I noticed that there was a "trapdoor" flap cut into the sheet metal in the floor of the van behind the driver's seat. There was a key latch, but I didn't have the key. The way the crappy brush-on bedliner was applied, I'm wasn't even sure the hatch would open, but there it was. Suddenly I'm starting to realize that I don't really know all that much about this vehicle. I'm about to cross an international border in a van I'd just purchased from a guy I only knew via the internet - a van with a hidden compartment. Since I'd flown into vancouver, I had only my carry-on bag with a single change of clothes and a few bits of electronics for the drive south. No tools, but that didn't matter since I wasn't going to be able to do anything in the time it took for the line to advance to the CBP booth at the border anyway. I was going to be importing the vehicle to the US anyway, so I resolved to be very upfront about how I had just purchased the vehicle, but not to say anything about the hatch unless prompted. I tossed by bag onto the edge of the flap, and went about my business.

Crossing the border and importing the vehicle became more of a bureaucratic exercise because of the ignorance of the first few CBP officers I interacted with. The need to find a supervisor who understood the rules for bringing and American-made vehicle back into America surpassed everything else, so I quickly forgot about my "trap door" problem. Then there was the 23-hour straight through drive from Vancouver to San Diego, where the van died and wouldn't restart literal blocks from my home. So it wasn't until I was DEEP into the salvage/harvest operation and really tearing down the van for the last of it's useful parts that I finally remembered the "secret" door.

I was about to attempt to drill the lock and force the door open when something in my brain whispered that I should see what's behind the door first - maybe the "secret compartment" would be easier to access from underneath? I crawled underneath the van and had to take a few moments to re-orient myself since the donor was a 2WD and had a completely different front subframe and suspension from my AWD example. After those moments, I couldn't find any sort of box or compartment. I was pretty confused until I finally oriented my thinking relative to where I knew the driver's seat to be mounted, and found where the trap-door would be located in the floor - and then I realized I was staring at the back of the trap door. There was no box, no secret compartment at all. The door had seemingly been cut into the floor to access a house-battery tray that had long since disappeared in the previous owner's destruction of the camper. I'd been worried about literally nothing at all.
 

rossvtaylor

Adventurer
Herbie, thanks for sharing - a funny story and I completely understood your thought process. And, Doug720, thanks for the link. Fortunately, those laws (or proposed laws) won't apply to us since we won't be hiding anything illegal. Good to know, though.

On a side note... in the US you'll never be forced to open your safe or hidden compartment, by LE, unless they have probable cause and (barring some articulable exigent circumstances) a warrant. In fact, unless the vehicle is searched incident to arrest, or with probable cause, they won't even know about the safe/compartment. So, we're not inquiring about domestic issues. We were more curious about travelers' border experiences.
 
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doug720

Expedition Leader
You may have missed this in the first linked article - Just having the "Hidden" compartment is the problem.

"Lawmakers in Ohio are not alone in enacting or envisioning bans on unauthorized empty space. California, Georgia, Illinois, and Oregon have similar prohibitions on the books. Legislators in Iowa, Maryland, and New Jersey may add them this session. Similar bills have been filed in Delaware, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Virginia in recent years.

As Gurley's case shows, however, motorists risk criminal charges independent of any other illicit activity. (Though police eventually did find a misdemeanor amount of marijuana in the pocket of Gurley's passenger, the discovery took place after both of them had already been arrested, according to Reason's Ken Silva. "Without the hidden compartment law, we would not have had any charges on [Gurley]," a state trooper told the local news station.)"

http://reason.com/archives/2014/02/16/the-crime-of-having-a-hidden-compartment
 
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Ozrockrat

Expedition Leader
I have a couple of lock boxes under the seats in the FL. Mainly to hold our documentation because the FL doesn't have a glove box. Now when we are heading to a boarder crossing the paperwork is in hand not in the lock box. A copy of all documents are kept where the the y can be reached for federales or customs and if they need to see the originals we can get them out. I do not keep cash or any goodies in these, documents only.

As far as other "safe" places we can chat in person at some stage.

And if you are going to stash some emergency cash somewhere remember its there. I bought a motorcycle once that had $500 in the owners manual. Bloody cheap bike that one.
 

rossvtaylor

Adventurer
Hi Doug720... thanks, sir. I did read them all and there's a consistent theme, including in the first few paragraphs of the article you're referring to. It was “knowingly operate … a vehicle with a hidden compartment … used or intended to be used to facilitate the unlawful concealment … of a controlled substance.” So, it's not a crime to have a hidden compartment for money, documents, ID, etc. It's only illegal if you're hiding drugs in there, per the statutes' wording.

The author goes off on a tangent, not supporting by the wording of the law, and raises scary points about legal storage of money and stuff. But the wording of the law is pretty clear that it's only illegal if it can be shown that the compartment was there for the concealment of drugs. I understand the confusion, though, given the author's misinterpretation. But, it's not news if it's not scary, right?

And if you are going to stash some emergency cash somewhere remember its there. I bought a motorcycle once that had $500 in the owners manual. Bloody cheap bike that one.

I like your setup, Oz. And, this is funny... You got a good deal on that bike. I'll remember it's there, but I ought to make sure Kara knows before I get hit by a bus.

I saw an RV the other day with the black water discharge hose compartment marked "sewer hose." That gave me all kinds of ideas. :)
 

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