Tree Strap Too Short?

[R_Lefebvre]

Ok, so another question. My first time winching, and I found my 6 foot tree strap was too short for the tree I wanted to use. I ended up using a smaller tree a little further away, but say that wasn't an option...

I also had a 20 foot snatch strap, and a chain in my bag. Could I have used either of those? Any other solutions?

 

[Metcalf]

Yes you could have used your 20' strap. A tow strap tends to be a little more elastic than a tree strap, but they work just the same.

I wouldn't have recommended the chain unless the tree was dead, and then there are some other things to watch out for.

Another trick or two...

-Thread a strap through one eye forming a longer tail that can let you reach a little farther. The noose goes around the tree. Though not recommended all the time because it can put extra stress on the tree, if you take care to use a wide strap it is usually not a problem.

-You can take a long tow strap and use it around two trees at once to spread the load by using the above tactic combined with a shackle at the other tree to form another loop. This is handy when you only have small trees or need to pull from a different angle than one tree would allow.

-You can adjust a long strap in length by doubling it over or even in four parts to shorten the distance if needed.

-A long strap can also be used to wrap multiple trees in series if they are very small in dia. This can spread the load out to many trees at once. All you need is a full wrap on each tree. Try and have all the trees in a row or at small angles to each other instead of sharp angles and distances. You can use the the eye technique when you are short on hardware.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Never use a chain, dead tree or not it leave scarring that many circles find offensive and could lead to the death of said tree being pointed at 4x4 users. I would be careful about using the strap, as Metcalf pointed out it is elastic so it will store some degree of energy as it stretches, that stretch can lead to a projectile or damaged equipment.

My recommendation would be a longer Tree Saver or a second one to compliment your current one. Several manufactures make them in longer varieties and by looping the ends you could easily double up two shorter ones.

 

[Scott Brady]

Ok, so another question. My first time winching, and I found my 6 foot tree strap was too short for the tree I wanted to use. I ended up using a smaller tree a little further away, but say that wasn't an option...

I also had a 20 foot snatch strap, and a chain in my bag. Could I have used either of those? Any other solutions?

Lots to discuss here. Never use a recovery strap (dynamic) to extend a winching operation (static). Unfortunately, even some instructors demonstrate a recovery rope used in a winch rigging. Just like you never rock climb with a static line. Recovery ropes and straps are designed to store kinetic energy to aid in a vehicle-to-vehicle recovery, not to extend a winch rigging.

Recovery straps are typically made from nylon, while tree straps (more appropriately rigging straps) are typically made from polyester, though some are made from synthetic winch line with several layers of protective sleeves, like the Viking rigging and tree straps. If you see your tree protector is made from nylon (or has stretch), throw it away...

Here is a proper recovery (snatch) strap- Made from nylon with 20% stretch

Here is a proper tree strap- Made from polyester, with nominal stretch (they all stretch some, like 1-3%)

From the ARB page



I carry a 10' and 20' rigging strap, both of which can be used as a tree protector, around rocks, etc. These new rigging straps have nearly replaced the need for a chain (except for high heat situations).

http://www.winchline.com/treesaver.htm

 

[RobA]

In Australia we rate winch recovery as "advanced" skills so spend a good deal if time dealing with all aspects including a change of winch direction which tends to make things rather exciting and quite demanding on the equipment.

Our training standards align with several comments vis

• Never use a snatch strap for a winch recovery
• Always use a live tree

If the tree has a large trunk, always better than one with a small trunk. then you also have the option of using a winch extension strap in the same way you would use a tree trunk protector. This also allows you some extra distance if required. But you never wrap any strap around the tree to prevent ring-barking. Chains are never used for the same reasons.

Regards

RobA

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...using a winch extension strap in the same way you would use a tree trunk protector...

You bring up a good point. A winch extension strap is also a great example of a static recovery strap. However watch the ratings, winch extension straps range from 7500lb to the sky's limit (we have a place here in SLC that will make you anything you want length/weight fwiw). A large winch or even a smaller winch such as a M8000 when used with a snatchblock could exceed the breaking strength of the winch extension strap. In the frictionless world of FBD's we could assume both sides of a tree saver strap would see identical forces, in the real world you should play it safe and assume one side of the strap could see more or less of the load.

 

[UK4X4]

As much as we'd all love to have a huge set of rescue gear, with all the toys and widgets.

Given the choice of dodgy small tree over large secure tree and the equipment he had..

I'd have used the tow strap -

yes the "snatch straps" are stretchy

( that ARB orange one is a thing of beauty I bought on three weeks ago
and still don't want to get it dirty )

Most of the cheaper Northern tool / local store type ones are standard straps with limited stretch.

A stretchy tow strap whilst not being ideal can be used if required, making it safer is not that dificult.

ie strap folded in half
the middle and the two ends around the tree and a shackle used to tie the middle and the two ends together.
then attach the winch line to the shackle.

This reduces the amount of boing in any one direction.

If your worried about the bark, use some floor matts between the strap and the tree to spread the load

As per usual a safe distance away from the equipment would be required.

I hate chain- would not even carry it.

If you approach the same issues from the I have every strap made on the planet, which one should I use ?

then the right one for the job - a no stretch short strap

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Interesting discussion here guys which is why I posted it here. I will shop for a longer tree strap as obviously it is *the* thing to use, and is easy to carry and not too expensive.

So, that's the idea. Now, the other side to the question, however is "So you're stuck, and don't have the right equipment, shame on you. But, you need to get out of trouble, is it 'ok' to do this?"

Would using either a chain or snatch strap result in certain death?

I like to seperate things into "What is ideal", "What is not ideal, but can work in a pinch", and "Don't do that, you'll die."

I don't like carrying the chain either, but do so only in the off chance I'll need it some time in combination with my HiLift Extreme to winch the truck.

 

[UK4X4]

"Would using either a chain or snatch strap result in certain death?"

unlikely but possible-

everytime we use force on anything, greater than the body can sustain, injuries can and do occur.

Risk is involved with almost every part of leaving the house in the morning................

some people never make it across their garden

others live to be a 100+

Risk-appraisel is an artform and people get paid large ammounts of money for
adding the clauses to insurance forms and conducting safety audits.


never rush into a rescue scenario
try and access all possible outcomes
plan to avoid the negative outcomes
Rig your gear as safely as possible

Stand back - take a tea break and listen to the wife.....:Wow1:

Then move all people back out of harms way and execute the extraction in a slow controlled manner.

Stop if anything does not look right. re-rig if required

I only hate chain as its a no no these days in lifting, as fractures can't be seen with naked eye.

damage can usually be seen on wire rope and straps

Oilfield wise they are generally banned....yet I've even seen sisal rope still used on some remote 3rd world rigs for lifting operations.

At the end of the day body work damage is repairable and peoples well being should be concidered first.

Worried about your technical winch scenario......

start digging and jacking-

slower but inherently safer

 

[Metcalf]

No you won't die.

I have used a tow strap as a tree strap more times than I can remember. Usually it was because I needed the extra length, another strap, or a longer strap. As always, be careful, and double check all your rigging.

You can use a chain in a pinch around a tree by using split wood as cribbing of sorts between the chain and the tree. Its always a pain the wood to stay around the tree when your trying to rig, I suggest using some duct tape or cord to tie the sections of wood to the tree.

 

[grahamfitter]

I don't like carrying the chain either, but do so only in the off chance I'll need it some time in combination with my HiLift Extreme to winch the truck.

Slightly off-topic: Is there a chain-free option for those of us who only have a hi-lift? Chain is heavy and unwieldy but the clevis hooks on the end make it possible to adjust the length.

Cheers,
Graham

 

[lowenbrau]

It is wise to consider how dynamic your equipement is and if you are unable to anylize the rigging then you need to follow some hard and fast rules such as "don't use a tuggum strap in a winching operation" Those kinds of rules may extend your life but will also extend your stay in the mud.

I'd submit that a dynamic connection (tuggum strap) to a solid anchor does *not* pose a safety risk and is the best possible place for a dynamic component in that particular operation. I'd be sure that no one was behind the tree and that the tree was of sufficient mass that if it sheered off at the roots it wouldn't be flung toward the winch. Any failure of a component in that scenario would result in things beig hurled away from the stuck rig and toward the tree. Assuming the spectators have been safely stowed, that is a reasonable outcome.

I'd be happy to be educated further.

 

[crawler#976]

The only time I use chain is when removing dead and down trees from the trail. I use 3/8" grade 80, 7100 WLL rated chain with properly rated hooks. Dragging a strap or tree saver over our typically rocky ground causes severe fraying. Even the high quality chain is rated three times lower in strength than a 3/8" tree saver from Viking.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Slightly off-topic: Is there a chain-free option for those of us who only have a hi-lift? Chain is heavy and unwieldy but the clevis hooks on the end make it possible to adjust the length.

Cheers,
Graham

Good question, because I'd love to get it out of my bag.

 

[JamesDowning]

The reason you don't want to use a dynamic strap in a static recovery is that the dynamic strap will act as a spring. The spring will stretch as you gain the force needed to move the vehicle over the obstacle. However, once you are past the 'teeter point' of the recovery operation and you no longer need all that force to unstick yourself, the dynamic strap will keep pulling at the same force because it has been displaced. It will keep pulling you (even if you shut off your winch) until the strap has reached its resting state. It will (surprisingly) result in a jerkier recovery.

As for an alternative to using chain with a hilift, you could possibly use a winch extension line as is demonstrated in Bill Burke's "getting UNstuck". However that won't have the load holding capability that the chain and the off road kit combo does.