Turning circle of a mog and suitability for atlas mountains

[sammyb]

Hi Guys

Im new to the forum, I have been lurking round for a few months and am gaining lots of ideas from your valuble expertise. I am building a camper on the shortest version of a 416, so far I have the mog completly restored except for the gearbox which is still good and the camper frame built.

I have a question about the suitabilty of a mog for the atlas mountains as the book I am reading (Morocco Overland) says that unimogs are not nimble enough to get round the many hairpin bends. So I did a little test in the supermarket car park , reversed in to space A put the mog on full lock and selected first and ended up perfectly in space D.
This does'nt seem so bad to me and must be better than a defender 130, what do you guy think is the guy that wrote this book full of BS or just jealouse he can't have a mog. How does a mog really compare with other veichles for getting round mountain roads ???


Sam

 

[wanderingeye]

turning radius?/advice

Sammy, My wife and I spent the month of August in Morrocco in 1976 in our VW Westfalia. We spent significant time in the Atlas Mts. and traveled as far South as the Western Sahara. Rather by dumb luck or with a skiers experience for terrain changes, we never had any problems with our 2 wheel drive VW in the Atlas Mtns :smiley_drive:. We traveled some pretty hairy "roads", but exercised a good bit of caution and kept our speeds very low. We did meet a family traveling in a Unimog lamenting that they were not able to buy a spare tire. You might consider carrying an extra. We also met a family traveling in a Mercedes van who had lost the entire front windshield. They were very uncomfortable in the 110 degree heat. We would simply pull off the road, turn off the key and camp any place we chose away from human activity, yet often in the AM we would find children scavaging our garbage for anything that could be used as a food untensil. We also noticed that the locals carried off every bit of forest litter that was burnable and left nothing organic on the ground. We were often surprised to have nomads walk out of the shimmering heat just to "talk" with us. We had a common language in our hackneyed French. They were universally kind to us and we would buy extra at the local markets to give away. Being a young, 6 foot, 200# American, physical danger never entered my mind until one night at the Southern most part of our trip we found a truck park surrounded by razor wire and an armed guard. That was a signal to stay for the night behind the wire. The cultural situation may have changed because of the Islamic Nazis. We remember our time there fondly and were treated mostly well. I could go on, especially about the snake charmer putting a cobra around my neck, but I won't. I would advise to travel as light as possible, have plenty of extra water, have either produce or goods to give away and practice your French. All the best, Tom

 

[Chas Stricker]

Howdy Sam,
Is your 416 a 3250mm(about 128") wheelbase. I know they made a few longer wheelbase models, but, if it is shorter than that it is probably a 406(really stubby). That said, they have an incredible turning radius. I've seen them on the Rubicon and it is truely amazing what they can do and where they can go. I've never been where you're going however. Do you have pictures of your build? Good Luck,
Chas

 

[sammyb]

Thanks for the info Tom, my girlfriend comes back from marrakesh tonigh she's just been there with a friend. No end of hassels, for 2 girls walking round the markets they did have a taxi to take them on a tour with two other girls in the atlas mountains close to marrakesh which they said was pretty cool.

Here are a couple of pic's of my mogs you may have seen on Benzworld chas, the sap green truck is my camper, the red doka well Im not actually sure ??? I had some spare cash so I bought it !!! it may end up as a family 4x4 when I have kids or I may sell it. The green truck is the shortest of the 416's the red one is a longwheel base and I have also seen extra longwheel base 416's. A 406 while cute is not big enough for a camper for me.

thanks for your input guys

sam

 

[charlieaarons]

I had no problem with my 3900mm wheelbase. A MAN 6X6 we were travelling with did have difficulty around some of the turns.

Charlie

 

[LukeH]

have either produce or goods to give away and practice your French. All the best, Tom

Hiya, you'll get round the corners, your 416 is plenty nimble.

I'd just like to clarify something that Wanderingeye stated.
His wonderful experience is the same ai we've had every time we go to Morocco; much less in the north but south of the Atlas the people are magnificent.
Their generosity and internal wealth puts us "civilised" folk to shame.
But buying stuff just to give away is a surefire way to:
1) create a dependance
2) spoil the travelling experience for those that follow
3) waste resources, packaging etc.

These lovely people take you into their house, they feed you, give you clothes, slippers, (one family killed their ONLY chicken for us, I didn't know what to say) let you sleep on their floor (when not in an XV) and all you can give them is something you bought earlier, without knowing the people to whom you are going to give it to. NO!
We take much more stuff than we need, and we come back with other stuff. But we've given OUR things to people who have given us THEIR things.
And tourists should NEVER NEVER just give away stuff for nothing! I've seen French 4x4 "raiders" throwing sweets and pens out of the window at kids without even stopping!!! That just ruins any cultural exchange following travellers could possibly have.
Thank goodnes for Islam, it's in their teaching to take in the traveller.
Sorry, I got carried away, it's OT and there are places ro rant, but I adore Morocco and the Berbers and it hurts me to see their attitudes change towards the westerners who think they're "civilized" and "helping" buy just handing stuff out.
You'll have so much fun in your MOG and don't let anyone tell you you're isolating yourself from the cultural exchanges by travelling in an XV, you get out what you put in; all you have to do is stop and say hello, and not give in to the kids whose only french is "donnez-moi un cadeau"

 

[sammyb]

Thanks guys, I had an idea the guy writting the book had chip on his shoulder about bigger expedition vehicles. I know weight will limit me in soft sand compared to a toyota but will height me an issue in many places ???

I agree though throwing pens and candy at kids is all going to end in tears or worse !!!
Running over the family goat might cost you a couple of hundred dollars, somebodys kid does'nt bare thinking about. My truck will be kitted out with a generator, welder, chain saw etc so hopefully my muscle and kit will be able to help out along the way.

sam

 

[LukeH]

I know weight will limit me in soft sand compared to a toyota but will height me an issue in many places ???

You cannot compare your mog to 16 inch wheeled cars. your power to weight may appear awful but the extra diameter tyres mean the attack angle of the rubber is better and you will be amazed at what gearing and patience can get you through. It's no dune buggy so steep dunes are out, but the really soft stuff shouldn't present a problem on the flat.
There ar one or two out of the way passes hewn into a rock face so there is a ceiling, other than that have you even heard of railway or road bridges in Morocco?

I agree though throwing pens and candy at kids is all going to end in tears or worse !!!
Running over the family goat might cost you a couple of hundred dollars, somebodys kid does'nt bare thinking about. My truck will be kitted out with a generator, welder, chain saw etc so hopefully my muscle and kit will be able to help out along the way.
sam

Sounds good, for a new school, or after a flood perhaps. Your heart's obviously in the right place. But again, ask yourself this: If the family/community/village has run the way it is for X generations, why does it need a white man to come along and initiate something? It's not as if there's a lack of manual labour about! If whatever you're proposing hasn't already been attempted perhaps there's no need. By spontaneously helping/building/giving, are you helping someone to help themselves when you're not there???
Oops OT again; some time soon the moderators are going to tell me off.

Does your MOG have the air pressurised diffs? If so stick a manual valve in there otherwise the pressure will have you peeing oil all along the piste. That system was principally designed for wading. You can open the valve when you see water.
Have fun
Luke

 

[rhodos]

Hi Sam,

we spend some time with our 417 Camper in the Atlas mountains (and similar aereas) and never had to complain about the turning radius, your height may be an issue in some places - thats why we build a camperbox with popup roof (http://eifelbaer.de.vu/ -> look Unimog). A well maintained and build up 416/417 Mog is one of the capabelst (sp?) and reliabelst 4x4 campers if you can keep the weight under 6 metric tons.

bye, Werner

 

[sammyb]

Hi luke

Thanks for your input, I have no plan to do anything to out of the ordinery, just If I can help some one weld up there car on the track to get them going again or if supplying electricty for a day helps someone build something thats good. Im not planning on saving the third world from its self.

As for diffs leaking oil this seems a bit strange to me as we see mogs operating in ski resorts all the time with difflocks in, a 416 like mine you lift a lever half way up to mechanical lock the center diff and then all the way up to open the air supply to front and rear diffs. Fully locked is the sensible option for decending very steep slippy grades no diffs locks means a quick ride to the bottom.

Hi Werner

Thanks for your reply I will look at your website after this, we are building a solid camper more for weather protection as we also plan to go north and yes weight is important Im keeping as much weight as low as possible and not planing on to much in the camper either. I want to go places rather than be stopped by the size of the truck.

Thanks again guys

sam

 

[charlieaarons]

As for diffs leaking oil this seems a bit strange to me as we see mogs operating in ski resorts all the time with difflocks in, a 416 like mine you lift a lever half way up to mechanical lock the center diff and then all the way up to open the air supply to front and rear diffs. Fully locked is the sensible option for decending very steep slippy grades no diffs locks means a quick ride to the bottom.

Luke H is referring to the option for fording deeper water which engages air pressure (~0.7 bar????) into the diffs when any differential is locked or 4WD is engaged. This puts pressure on hub seals and other seals in the front axle in particular and could cause oil leakage if seals are worn.
He's suggesting putting a manual (or electrically actuated) valve in the line, after the pressure regulator.
The deep fording option code is Z16.

Charlie

 

[LukeH]

that's it

Thanks Charlie.
I know a couple of folk who have taken ex german army U1000s and U1300s and for some reason the pressure to the axles is permanant, so the seals go prematurely.
I don't know whether the 416 has that option, but I thought I'd mention it.
Happy trails
Luke

 

[Iain_U1250]

Hi Sam, regarding the diff locks, I prefer to lock only the rear diff when decending a slope - front diff locked means you won't be doing much turning as it will plow on straight. I've modified mine to have the centre front and rear diff on three different circuits ( with fording pressure on a fourth circuit)

Never tried it out but that's how all my other vehicles with air lockers had been set up and it is very difficult to turn a car with a locked up front diff let alone a truck.

Regarding the height of the truck, I have read in a few places that the standard for most low bridges /cuttings around the world is 3.5m - particularly in the ex-Soviet block, China and Asia, so unless your truck is fairly high, you should not have a problem. I've be paying particular attention to that on me trips out bush here in Australia, and have not come across one lower than 3.5m yet.

I hope this works out world wide - my truck will be 3.4m high and even if I let the tyres down completely, I won't be squeezing under anything less than 3.2m

Hi luke

As for diffs leaking oil this seems a bit strange to me as we see mogs operating in ski resorts all the time with difflocks in, a 416 like mine you lift a lever half way up to mechanical lock the center diff and then all the way up to open the air supply to front and rear diffs. Fully locked is the sensible option for decending very steep slippy grades no diffs locks means a quick ride to the bottom.

sam

 

[sammyb]

Hi Iain

My camper is about the same height as yours, pretty much on par with a semi in europe so all highways are fine just have to be careful on back roads. As for diffs, mine is standard, without the fording option, I have driven in water 1 m deep but only a quick river crossing and have no plans to go deeper. I will change the system to have solinoids to control front and rear but not yet.

sam

 

[dzzz]

........

Regarding the height of the truck, I have read in a few places that the standard for most low bridges /cuttings around the world is 3.5m - particularly in the ex-Soviet block, China and Asia, so unless your truck is fairly high, you should not have a problem. I've be paying particular attention to that on me trips out bush here in Australia, and have not come across one lower than 3.5m yet.

I hope this works out world wide - my truck will be 3.4m high and even if I let the tyres down completely, I won't be squeezing under anything less than 3.2m

I noticed the unicat plans I looked at were at 3.5m. They seem to agree with you. I look at it as the first design constraint is to fit in a high container. The second is to stay under 3.5m. I'm not sure what the "rule of thumb" should be for length.

At 3.5m there's still the design consideration if one wants to slope the roof edges to avoid catching the edge.

I agree with the point Charlie and others have made that a well designed hard sided popup is the optimal design.