Used vs. New Overland Vehicle?

[kanger]

I'm new to the overlanding scene and was wondering...how do you decide between USED and NEW when building an expedition vehicle (barring cost of course, which I understand is a huge factor)? I ask because overlanding isn't like regular off-roading where you can take any cheap 4x4 and tow it back if you have problems. From the threads I've read, I see that many of you venture into some very remote locations where a vehicle breakdown would be detrimental. Many of you travel solo, so I'd imagine vehicle reliability is very important. But, I see many members still buying 10-15+ year old vehicles and outfitting them to be the ultimate expedition rig. I know Toyotas have a reputation for reliability, but age is still age. Are major breakdowns just not that common in all of your experiences? Maybe it depends on where you're going? My plans are to travel within the United States with a possible trip up to Alaska.

I personally drive an 18 year old 4Runner. I do all my own work and have been working to get everything mechanically sound, but I still have random issues that pop up (including a cylinder misfire that just keeps coming back). I would be worried about things going wrong when overlanding. Makes me think twice about investing more in my rig vs. saving up for a new(er) vehicle.

Your lessons from your experiences would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[Elbee]

Go used. If you want go about 2 to 3 years old, the trucks will be way cheaper (more money for fuel and mods) and are still pretty much 'new'. There are plenty of people that are traveling to distant lands in old vehicles. If you think that your truck is what you want in a vehicle look into a possible overhaul of the engine and a full servicing all around. There are several 1st and 2nd gen 4runners out that are doing or have done big trips such as driving from the states to the southernmost tip of South America.

Parts are fairly cheap and plentiful for 4runners and there is an ungodly amount of great info on them on the web. But if you need more room go with an early 2000s 100 series LC

Also older vehicles are easier to work on in the field and are less likely to be sustainable to electronic gremlins and electronic components that fail which completely immobilize the vehicle.

 

[Gregster]

Can't go wrong with a lightly used Toyota.

 

[Clutch]

It depends...sometimes part of the adventure is fixing it out on the road.

Will be cheaper to keep your 4Runner going than buying a new or slightly used vehicle.

Tooling around America you usually aren't too far from help. What is the cost of a new 4Runnner now-a-days, $35K+?...that buys and
awful lot of parts and tows if you need it.

I just dumped $4K into my old Taco with 282K miles on it to freshen it up a bit....sure beats spending $30K+ on a new one...and can afford to buy a new one,
rather have the money in the bank...and well...I was getting ready to buy a new Tundra, but decided I am going to get something even older and do a quasi restoration.

Funny thing I have told some people how much I spent on repairs...and they say: you could of bought a new truck! I ask them what new truck sells for $4,000???

well you could sell your old one, that plus $4,000....ok what new truck sells for $8-10,000???

 

[Martinjmpr]

I will never buy a new vehicle again. Even on a Toyota the depreciation hit is too much.

My last two Toyotas have been OOW (Out Of Warranty) when I bought them. No problems or issues.

Even if you imagine a catastrophic repair (say a transmission or a T-case, or a blown head gasket), you're looking at a $3000 - $4000 repair bill max. That's less than the depreciation hit you'll take the first year of owning your vehicle.

Also, such failures are extremely rare, while the depreciation is a 100% guarantee.

I know a lot of people will say "I looked at the numbers and it made more sense to buy new" but to me that sounds like somebody trying to justify doing something they've already decided they're going to do anyway.

A new 4runner, even with dealer discounts, is going to be somewhere north of $30k (probably close to $35k - $40k by the time you add the options.) OTOH you can find a decent used one for $21 - $22k. Even if you get "0% interest" (which you're likely going to pay for in the form of a higher initial price) that $10k+ difference is huge. It's the difference between a $450 car payment and a $750 car payment, or the difference between a 3 year note and a 6 year note.

I paid $19k for a 2007 4runner in 2012. Had 93k on the clock when I bought it. It will be paid for by the end of this year. I'm guessing most people who bought a new 4runner in 2012 probably still owe nearly $15k (if not more) by this time.

And BTW I don't think this is necessarily a "Toyota thing" either. I would have felt just as confident buying an Xterra or an R51 Pathfinder with the same age and mileage, although the X would have been at least $4k less expensive.

 

[Arktikos]

No new trucks for me, either. I own 3 Toyota 4x4's that are all at least 22 yrs old and would drive them anywhere-except some of those off road trails. If the engine's running well, cooling system, front end and brakes are good, just drive it till it drops. But, it won't drop.

 

[tanglefoot]

The vast majority of the cases, I agree that it's usually best to buy used. The exception I've noticed is if you're interested in a less-equipped, base-model type vehicle. The lower trim examples can be hard to find used. Most used vehicles are well-equipped, since that's how most of them leave the lot, new. When shopping for a few-year-old vehicle with high resale value, the prices on the used examples can often exceed the price of a brand new, base model.

If you're interested in a better-equipped configuration, then it makes lots of sense to buy used, since the availability is good and the cost savings are substantial.

I feel much more comfortable and liberated in a vehicle with less financial value. I get pretty uptight adventuring in something that's worth a lot of capital--there's so much to lose if something goes wrong--it's a jungle out there! I feel most at home with my 1985. I know it pretty well, and am fairly confident that if something simple goes wrong with it, I might be able to remedy it myself. My 2007 hatchback is too new for me to be completely at ease with, but I'm getting better over time. I'll probably feel more comfortable with it 10 years from now.

 

[Ryanmb21]

It often makes sense to buy new if you are going to keep the vehicle for 8+ years and 100k+

On the flip side to Martin's example above where he bought a 2007 4runner in 2012 witih 93k for 19k, the original owner drove a a new 4runner for about 6 years and 93k for about 11-12k. A pretty good deal, they paid about 2k/yr in depreciation a year which is pretty similar to what the second owner will be paying.

 

[millerfish]

I am also a buy used guy normally. However I recently decided to pick up a Tacoma. I was amazed at the price of used one. A 2-3 year old with 30-50K was only a few K less than a new one. At least for the Tacoma it did not make sense to buy used...

 

[washington taco]

I bought new in October of 1999, a 2000 Taco. I will run this truck for 5 more years, 20 total then buy an new Taco and run it for 20 years. By then I will be in my 70s. If you keep a new truck until its dead dead dead I feel its a better option.

Current truck has 311,000 on the factory engine. Just ran down to Lake Tahoe and back last month and got 18 mpg!

 

[SIZZLE]

I am also a buy used guy normally. However I recently decided to pick up a Tacoma. I was amazed at the price of used one. A 2-3 year old with 30-50K was only a few K less than a new one. At least for the Tacoma it did not make sense to buy used...

I found the same thing in my area so I bought a new 2nd gen Tacoma. But I could afford it and that's the exception to the rule.

Even new trucks can break down. There are no guarantees in life. But the chances of a well maintained Toyota of any vintage suffering a catastrophic failure when you need it most is so low it's not worth considering. And the chances of that failure leading to your ultimate demise are even lower.

If you know the history of your truck and you've taken good care of it, that's priceless. I'd stick with what you know and spend the extra dough on gas!

 

[Martinjmpr]

On the flip side to Martin's example above where he bought a 2007 4runner in 2012 witih 93k for 19k, the original owner drove a a new 4runner for about 6 years and 93k for about 11-12k. A pretty good deal, they paid about 2k/yr in depreciation a year which is pretty similar to what the second owner will be paying.

Nope, I bought the truck from a dealer, which means that he bought the truck from the previous owner for probably $12- $15k, if that. So the depreciation was probably closer to $15-20k.

Also your math only works if there was one previous owner. If there was more than one (lets say, one owner from 0k miles to 50k and another from 50k to 93k) then the guy who owned it from 0K to 50k lost a huge amount and the guy who owned it from 50k to 93k only lost a little.

 

[haven]

Even better, buy a used truck someone has built up for off-road use. You 'd be surprised how many people finish a project, use it for a couple of months, then sell it so they can start a new project. Accessories like lockers, skid plates and axles depreciate, too.

 

[Jeremy P.]

Even better, buy a used truck someone has built up for off-road use. You 'd be surprised how many people finish a project, use it for a couple of months, then sell it so they can start a new project. Accessories like lockers, skid plates and axles depreciate, too.

There is a downside to this though. This is what I did last year, thinking I was going to have a newer built vehicle ready to go. But the combination of a vehicle with 120k with significant offroad use has meant that I have done a lot of work to it over the last year. Granted, I still saved a lot over buying the mods separately since I bought the vehicle essentially for the price of a stock one. It is this 4runner: http://expeditionportal.com/toyota-other-models/2054-la-aduana-2004-toyota-4runner.html

Some of the work I have done over the last year:
-replaced a leaking radiator (it was also packed with mud when I removed it)
-replaced the OME suspension with ICON (5 years heavy use, broken spring on front, too stiff for my liking)
-rebuilt the lower and upper adjustable rear links
-rebuilt the rear differential with all new bearings due to pinion bearings going bad. My theory is the budbuilt diff skid trapped a lot of dirt between it and the diff causing the axle to run hot. At the same time I fully disassembled the ARB and replaced the seals in it.
-rebuilt the front differential since I could feel some play in the pinion. I discovered that the shop that originally installed the gears and locker did a less than stellar job since there were numerous hammer marks on things including the bearing pockets. My guess is then the pinion bearing races then seated further over time, allowing the bearings to loosen up. I replaced the seals in the front ARB as well. (as a tip: pressure test your ARB before reinstalling everything back in the vehicle! I did not and had to remove/reinstall the front clamshell diff twice!)
-rebooted one CV shaft, replaced the other due to leaking. (Use new or rebuilt toyota CV's; the inner tulip of the aftermarket spare I had would bind due to the extended travel ICON coilovers)
-I still need to replace one of the front wheel bearings due to play.

Needless to say, I have had a lot of opportunity to learn the ins and outs of my vehicle. The upside is that I now know the condition of many of the components, and know how to work on them if problems arise in the future or while in a remote area.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Even better, buy a used truck someone has built up for off-road use. You 'd be surprised how many people finish a project, use it for a couple of months, then sell it so they can start a new project. Accessories like lockers, skid plates and axles depreciate, too.

This is a great reason to buy a motorcycle used vs. new.

I bought my Triumph Scrambler new, which mean I had to pay for all the upgrades (winshield, better seat, rack, handlebar risers, etc.)

When I sold the Scrambler I bought a BMW R1150R used. So it already has all the farkles on it: Bark busters, PIAA lights, aftermarket exhaust, side cases, windshield, highway pegs, etc. Only thing I had to add was my top case (which I took off the Scrambler before I sold it) and my RAM mount on the handlebar for my GPS.

It was the same when we bought my wife's Suzuki. Already had the aftermarket exhaust, gel seat, saddlebags, highway pegs, etc.