VW Diesel in a TJ

troy

Adventurer
I'd be interested to see if they can cost effectively market something to integrate the TDI computer system into another vehicle.

The suzuki crowd has been swapping in these deisels for years (mostly 1.6TD and 1.9 IDI), the TDI is the elusive creature due to the complexity. There is a guy that makes a mechanical pump for the TDI, so you can essentially have the simpliciity of a mechanical pump, but the power of the 1.9 engine. Even tweaked, I think the 1.9 is borderline for use in the heavier Jeep. Especially when you factor in the big tires and lift. A stock tire wrangler with this conversion would be pretty cool though.

Also, try to find cheap VW diesels. They tend to be pretty expensive. An GM - LS series swap would likely return similar mpgs and have oodles more power.

Not trying to knock this swap, as I am in the middle of swapping in a 1.6TD VW diesel into a sub 2000 lb. suzuki with 33" tires. Even with a few moderate mods, I worried it won't have enough power to be daily driven.

Troy
 

jeepdreamer

Expedition Leader
I'm stoked...

I've been waiting for someone to do this on a broader scale for a long time. Finally someone with the knowledge to mess with these great little engines and willing to drop one in a Jeep!:wings:
I'm getting stationed in Germany next year so I will be looking all over for a good used version of this for my own YJ...if not one for my 67 Commando as well! I think the other options (like the 4Bt) is more appropriate for the full size jeeps. And with a smaller one (Cj,Yj,Tj...whatever) I can't imagine the "lack of power" is all that much. Plus, if I wanted pure power I'd be going gas anyway...I'm after diesel for economy, durablity, and being able to find fuel anywhere on the planet! If one gears the jeep correctly...the power should be almost a moot issue. Tune the diesel a little and add some over and under drive gearing and hit the trails! I'm stoked that this little engine is finally being looked at. I wonder what a VW weighs in comparison to a YJ?
 

jeepdreamer

Expedition Leader
past $.02

I agree that the 4BT will, can , and does work in a smaller jeep. No argument there. But for the cost of finding one now that everyone has kinda jumped on the diesel bandwagon..plus its weight, I'd be more inclined to go with something else unless a free bread truck broke down in front of my house...
As to the LIB diesel...It is my understanding that VM kinda got thrown under the bus by Chrysler...The engine suffered from several (mostly all well documented at this point) major and minor issues that were not handled very well through corporate chanels. Owners of the diesel libs kinda got the shaft on all counts. When the power started eating trannies, Jeep responded by reflashing the computer for LESS power! Head gasket blows? oh well...it will take us a couple months to fix it...but it may be covered under warranty, maybe? Then, since sales were sluggish Jeep just pulled the plug. Sorry VM...we don't need you anymore...Not posetive but they (VM) may have even gone out of buisness? Sad since the concept showed promise...anyone know more about these? I know in Europe they were available with the 6 speed manual...that would be a much hotter ticket!
And toss in the Brazilian made for Land Rover Power Stroke diesel that was in the Defender 90/110s...Another good littl TDI that is near impossible to see in the states! Drool drool...Sigh
 

brennanriddle1

Adventurer
Here's a really cool build of a TJ with a 4bt in it. Not expo'd yet but it'd be a pretty sweet platform.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=736600

diesel4bTJ.jpg
 

jingram

Adventurer
I agree that the 4BT will, can , and does work in a smaller jeep. No argument there. But for the cost of finding one now that everyone has kinda jumped on the diesel bandwagon..plus its weight, I'd be more inclined to go with something else unless a free bread truck broke down in front of my house...
As to the LIB diesel...It is my understanding that VM kinda got thrown under the bus by Chrysler...The engine suffered from several (mostly all well documented at this point) major and minor issues that were not handled very well through corporate chanels. Owners of the diesel libs kinda got the shaft on all counts. When the power started eating trannies, Jeep responded by reflashing the computer for LESS power! Head gasket blows? oh well...it will take us a couple months to fix it...but it may be covered under warranty, maybe? Then, since sales were sluggish Jeep just pulled the plug. Sorry VM...we don't need you anymore...Not posetive but they (VM) may have even gone out of buisness? Sad since the concept showed promise...anyone know more about these? I know in Europe they were available with the 6 speed manual...that would be a much hotter ticket!
And toss in the Brazilian made for Land Rover Power Stroke diesel that was in the Defender 90/110s...Another good littl TDI that is near impossible to see in the states! Drool drool...Sigh

Lot of misinformation here... CRD sales were actually double what Chrysler expected to sell in it's first year of introduction. The real reason it was cut, at least according to corporate was because of tighter emissions regs and the fact that it was illegal to sell in certain states at the time of introduction because they had tighter emissions regs than the EPA. The VM Motori motor is still in production and is being put in JK models as we speak for sales overseas, either mated to a 6speed manual or 5 speed auto. VM is certainly not out of business. Last I heard GM had bought a 50% stake in the company and was awaiting regulatory approval, but this was pre crash if memory serves me correctly. You are correct though about Daimler/Chrysler's handling of teething issues with the 2.8 in the Liberty. It was almost like they went out of their way to make it a rotten ownership experience for early adopters.
 

jeepdreamer

Expedition Leader
Nice being wrong...

Yeah...As much as I wish it were a rare occurance I am happy to be set straight. My understanding was (and is and whatever..) incorrect based on input I recieved from others while looking into diesel swaps myself. So I am happy to be prooven incorrect...thank you sir!
I will look into the VM motors while I am in Germany since I am often known to risk funny looks and perhaps assault while ogling an unusual jeep.
At least we agree that Chrysler did a monumental job of shafting their buyers. What really rubs me is that the emissions laws, like any other laws, are passed by OUR Government! Those WE elect and pay to work for us! I would think that less fuel consumption (i.e. diesel) would be preferred to using MORE gasoline?? Sure its kind of Rob from Peter to pay Paul..ish? But if we all switched to diesel...no more gasoline (ok, teetering on the edge of reality I know) and we used less to travel further..wouldn't that be better? Add into the equation the use of Biodiesel and potentially newer, more efficent diesels...how is that worse than gas??
Ok...off my ideal world soap box...sorry all. Off to go cut down a tree to feel better! ;)
 

Spikepretorius

Explorer
Don't lose too much sleep over not having easy access to diesel trucks.

Here in South Africa the novelty has worn off already.
TDi's are more expensive to purchase
The price of diesel has risen substantially since the trend began.
TDi's require more (expensive) maintenance
TDi's are extremely expensive to fix when they start giving problems
TDi's crack heads (very common)
TDi resale value is low because people are too scared to buy 2nd hand diesels
It doesn't make financial sense to use a TDi

I drive a diesel. Personally, I would never buy a used TDi and I would think three times before buying another new one.
I dread the day I have to try sell my truck

But they are nice to drive so hey.......:)
 
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x32792

Adventurer
4bt Jeep Conversion-Facts, Figures, Cautionary Notes

Below is a post by ArizonaPerfect on the dieselpowermag.com forum. He did the 4bt-Jeep conversion and offers some interesting facts, figures and a few cautionary notes:

http://forums.dieselpowermag.com/70...swaps/39l-cummins-in-jeep-wrangler/index.html

"I did the 3.9 Cummins in a 1995 Wrangler. It has a AX15 five speed transmission, 33 inch ProComp tires, and 3.07 gears (front and rear).

First off be prepared for a lot of attention. No matter where I go people stop and ask about the vehicle. It is very rare that I can get fuel without having to open the hood and show people. Pull into Home Depot and you become an instant "show stopper". At least two or three people come over to check it out and the ones that don't come over have a look of disbelief on their face. It really is a lot of fun!

Fuel economy in the winter is around 25 mpg. In the summer it goes up to around 27 - 29 mpg.

Be prepared to do a lot of changes. The stock rear axle has to go. A Dana 35 is not going to live very long. I upgraded to a Ford 9 inch. Find a set of 3.07 gears (eBay) to match the front. Since you are limited on engine rpm's, going with 4.10s or larger will limit your top speed.

My Wrangler has 3.07 gears and 33 inch tall tires. It turns about 1800 rpm's at 70 and the engine seems to like that alot. I had 3.55 gears, but the engine seemed to rev excessively. With 3.55 gears on a normal take off I'd be in fourth gear before I got through a typical intersection. A 4BT has more than enough power and torque.....it does not need big gears.

Finding a 4BT is as easy as going onto eBay. There are always 3 or 4 engines for sale. Plan on spending $2,500 to $3,500 for a good engine. Make sure they include the trans adapter. Even if it isn't the one you need, they all have value.

Your Jeep will also require a suspension lift kit of at least 4 inches. 4BT engines are very tall. The front axle gets to close to the oil pan on a non-lifted Jeep.

I installed all the cold start aids from a 1989 Dodge truck. 1989 - 1991.5 had a seperate module to run the intake grid heaters. The module also controlled the "Wait to Start" light and the "Water in Fuel" light. I used the original "Check Engine" light in the instrument cluster as a "Wait to Start" light and used the ABS light as the "Water in Fuel" light. I also installed the block heater from the same truck.

I live in Michigan and so far we've had an extremely cold winter. There have been several days where the temperature never got above 10 degrees and nights would go below zero. So far it has started every time. When the block heater is plugged in, the "Wait to Start" light does not come on. The block heater keeps the engine warm enough to where the module determines intake heat is not required.

Speaking of heat......the heater in the passenger compartment has no problem roasting you out of the vehicle. When the block heater is plugged in over night, heat is almost instant. The temp gauge goes to about 110 degree on start up, so I have to assume the six cylinder block heater is keeping the engine at about 110 degrees.

4BT's do vibrate. It is the nature of the beast. It does not bother me. The best way I can describe it is to find a recliner that has a vibrating massage feature. Put the chair setting on low and that is what it feels like.

Any four cylinder engine over about 2.0 liters will vibrate. The only way to fix it is to add balance shafts. Good luck find a set. They are hard to find. I've been looking for years and have yet to find a set. I know they exist because the Cummins service manual shows how to install and time them. They bolt to the bottom of the crankshaft main bearing caps. Does anyone know where to find a set of balance shafts?

Here is a question for everyone out there.....since I work for Chrysler, does that make my 4BT Wrangler the only one built by the factory? Hmmmmmmmm?..."
 

Explorer 1

Explorer 1
Now I know what to do....

Now I know what to do with my TDI Beatle when I'm done with it!

Thanks, :coffeedrink:
Fred
Explorer 1
 

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