Weight reduction and downsizing...

[the dude]

I have been pondering a downsize for my rig lately. Getting ready for our trip to Alaska has really got me thinking on what type of travel and vehicle we need.

under full load I am weighing in at 6800lbs. HEAVY. My Cruiser is also tall, accentuated by the high roof line of the 61. But it is a BIG chore getting in and out of, to load, and to access anything. Off camber is scary but manageable. But it also drives great, goes just about anywhere I want, gets OK MPG and is fully loaded with all the things I like. (cable locker, PTO, turbo diesel, big tires etc...)

I guess my question is trimming 500lbs and dropping it 2"-3" going to make a difference on a 6800lbs rig? I can lose a lot of the front bumper, the sliders can be built with lighter material, the wooden drawers can be replaced with AL, switch from steelies to AL and maybe even downsize my tires to a 37x12.5 and lose the body lift...

Any thoughts?

 

[Trail Monkey]

At first glance, going with a smaller tire will bring COG down abit, lower weight a bit and improve previous lost horsepower..

Id say the tires would be the place to start if you really want to notice the difference..

 

[BiG BoB]

For an expedition rig I would stick with steel wheels. They are tougher and easier to repair out bush if they become damaged (eg smashing them back into shape with a hammer)

Also the weight of the rims so low down on your vehicle should not be too much of an issue. Extra rims however may be a bit of a problem - how many spares do you carry and where are they? If you dessperatly want to loose weight perhaps carry only 1 spare rim/tyre, but a few spare spare tyres without rims. I'd assume you are already carrying tools to remove repair and refit tyres.

With suspension, a lot of rigs I see are lifted a lot higher than is neccessary. It almost seems to be a fashion statement. A 4wd only needs to be lifted as high as is neccessary, not as high as is possible.

Looking at the way your gear is packed, and how the weight is distributed is probably more important than trying to reduce it. Keep heavy gear off the roof!

Sean

 

[madizell]

I guess my question is trimming 500lbs and dropping it 2"-3" going to make a difference on a 6800lbs rig?

No, not really.

 

[madizell]

For an expedition rig I would stick with steel wheels. They are tougher and easier to repair out bush if they become damaged (eg smashing them back into shape with a hammer)

Personally, I think this is one of those popular truisms that, while true enough, are largely not relevant. I have driven off road since 1970, raced motorcycles and cars off road, beaten on my Jeeps without mercy, broken many things, but never a wheel, steel or otherwise. Driving expedition style, it is hard to imagine damaging a wheel to the point of needing repair. The only wheel I have ever damaged to the point of needing repair, in 42 years of driving, has been one aluminum wheel on the Audi when I hit a rock the size of a grapefruit on the interstate at 75mph. That one needed fixing. So did the tire.

 

[bj70_guy]

Dude, I love your truck! But if it's not meeting your current needs, why not change it? Even toned down some it would still be ridiculously capable.
Just curious, are you headed to the Alaska Cruiser Trek? Just wondering as I recall reading that it wasn't planned to be as difficult this year as in the past. If so you could probably pull the body lift and scale back all the way to 35s, have easier ingress/egress, snappier acceleration, better mileage and highway manners, and still have enough tire to meet the requirements.

Or leave it as is and quickly build an ExPo-style HDJ81 to go with it... is that the answer you're REALLY looking for? :elkgrin:

 

[Spikepretorius]

Personally, I think this is one of those popular truisms that, while true enough, are largely not relevant. I have driven off road since 1970, raced motorcycles and cars off road, beaten on my Jeeps without mercy, broken many things, but never a wheel, steel or otherwise. Driving expedition style, it is hard to imagine damaging a wheel to the point of needing repair. The only wheel I have ever damaged to the point of needing repair, in 42 years of driving, has been one aluminum wheel on the Audi when I hit a rock the size of a grapefruit on the interstate at 75mph. That one needed fixing. So did the tire.

This was also my opinion till one day out in the bush I got a stone between the caliper and the wheel and it punched a hole right through alu wheel, the size about a little bigger than a golf ball. Instant blow out.

 

[KMR]

Hey Brad,
My 60, while not as capable as yours, is outfitted much the same way, FF, lockers, drawers, bumpers, dual batteries, winch, TD (cheating here though since the HZ is lighter than the 2H) ect, ect. You obviously have a larger lift, bigger tires, high roof.... But I have been able to get the weight down to 5,800 loaded for a trip and I am planning to go further. The less weight I run the better she handles and the safer she feels. Rough roads are easier on all the mechanicals and on the passengers, there is considerably less body sway off road and a lot more security on off camber situations.
Loosing the roof rack is also a big bonus, even a few extra pounds up there makes a big difference, and while the wind drag is hard to notice when it is there, it is easy to notice the difference when it is not. Keeping the weight down is a good thing to strive for, but even more so with the wagons is weight distribution. With the 60s all the cargo area is actually behind the rear axle, exactly where you dont want it, add a bumper and spare tire holder and suddenly you have the most heavily loaded portion of the truck hanging 4.5' out behind the axle. I have found that getting the weight between the two axles and as low as possible makes the most drastic improvements in handling.
A lighter truck is just more fun to drive, on long trips that adds up to a big bonus.
cheers,
Kevin R.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Unsprung weight is the enemy.
Makes the suspension work harder and that makes the ride worse. it wears out suspension parts faster as a result.

The second thing people seem to not realize is rotational weight and its negative effects. More spinning mass the harder the brakes have to work to over come it. The harder the engine has to work to over come it, the more strain on axle shafts, Differentials, drive shafts, transmissions etc.

Yes a steel wheel can be beat back out in a pinch and if it was a rock crawler I would say thats is the way to go but on a truck seeing many miles of hwy and higher speed dirt road travel I think the pluses of Aluminum far out weight the negatives.

Yes in a 3rd world country where you are days away from service and you rarely travel over 45mph go with steel. In the US thats just not going to be the case.

Lets get honest...how many people here have broken an aluminum rim? Did you have a spare and use it to get out so you were not stranded?

How many people have bent a steel and HAD to use it to get out and just didn't throw the spare on and deal with it later?

Set of tire spoons and even if you destroyed one rim but not the tire would let you swap the good tire onto another rim if you damaged a tire. You could also carry a inner tube to deal with a damaged tire. Both small and easy to pack.

 

[Zorro]

There are many many ways to lose weight ... but they are expensive.

As it's been mentioned, wheels and suspension components make a huge difference.

Start with smaller tires and aluminum wheels. If you are reeeally feeling adventurous ... OEM sized spare. I wouldn't recomend that, though.

Lose the roof rack alltogether. IMO it is better to have a hitch mounted rack like many Jeep TJs have rather than a roof rack. Properly designed so as not to interfere too much with departure angle ... but nowhere near as high as a roof rack.

You could probably loose a lot of weight on the seats, interior setup and exhaust line. Same for front (and rear?) bumper, winch could use a synthetic line.

I wouldn't play with the mechanicals too much, though. The point of a 61 is to be bulletproof ... tinkering with that could ruin the point of the truck.

 

[madizell]

This was also my opinion till one day out in the bush I got a stone between the caliper and the wheel and it punched a hole right through alu wheel, the size about a little bigger than a golf ball. Instant blow out.

Exceptions to every rule. Two observations: 1) the aluminum wheel in the photo appears to be thin air-cast metal -- which brand of wheel was it? 2) if this had been a steel wheel with the same hole punched through it, which is entirely possible under the circumstances, would you have been prepared to fix it? In any event, if that were the only wheel I had to make up a 4-some, I believe I could repair it on the trail at least well enough to get home.

 

[Spikepretorius]

It was the standard OEM Mitsubishi wheel

Yeah some epoxy putty would have fixed it.
I still use the alu wheels.

 

[the dude]

about AL rims

Personally, I think this is one of those popular truisms that, while true enough, are largely not relevant.

I agree on this as well. Especially with a larger tire (35" +) I did some looking and my current tires, 38x14.5 Toyo MTs are 99lbs each plus rim. The 37x13.5 Toyo is 93lbs. In comparison a 37x12.5 Trxus is 79lbs. That's a big difference. I can also save about 7lbs a tire going to a 7" AL rim vs my 10" wide steelies. Total weight saved: 37" Toyo on AL= 52lbs OR 37" Trxus on AL=108lbs Granted, there has to be some benefit to a tire that weighs 20 pounds more per tire (side wall strength)

Dude, I love your truck! But if it's not meeting your current needs, why not change it? Even toned down some it would still be ridiculously capable.
Just curious, are you headed to the Alaska Cruiser Trek? Just wondering as I recall reading that it wasn't planned to be as difficult this year as in the past. If so you could probably pull the body lift and scale back all the way to 35s, have easier ingress/egress, snappier acceleration, better mileage and highway manners, and still have enough tire to meet the requirements.

Or leave it as is and quickly build an ExPo-style HDJ81 to go with it... is that the answer you're REALLY looking for? :elkgrin:

Thanks, I really like it as well, Yup, off to Cruiser Trek 08. I am thinking that 35s will result in too small of a tire. It is looking like a set of skinny 37s and drop the body lift and go with dual shocks up front to help with some of the body roll. I would love an 81 turned into a Exped rig...wife won't let that happen, yet.

Hey Brad,
My 60, while not as capable as yours, is outfitted much the same way, SNIP Keeping the weight down is a good thing to strive for, but even more so with the wagons is weight distribution. With the 60s all the cargo area is actually behind the rear axle, exactly where you dont want it, add a bumper and spare tire holder and suddenly you have the most heavily loaded portion of the truck hanging 4.5' out behind the axle. I have found that getting the weight between the two axles and as low as possible makes the most drastic improvements in handling.
A lighter truck is just more fun to drive, on long trips that adds up to a big bonus.
cheers,
Kevin R.

Thanks Kevin, 1000lbs lighter...WOW. Is that with you in the truck with full kit? That's my new goal, to try and trim 1000lbs. (yikes) I hacked off over 50lbs on the rear bumper this weekend (and replaced it all with a new dual swing out carrier). Plan on redoing the front bumper and sliders after ACT08 with the body lift removal. That should lose me at least 120lbs and synthetic line in the winch, another 30lbs... 5800lbs...hmm, this could be tougher then I think.

As for weight distribution, we are perfectly 50% front to back loaded up. I am not sure what you best scenario is? I absolutely agree with getting the weight as far forward and as low as possible. Right now we carry our water/cooler behind the front seats and load the drawers with all the heavy stuff towards the front. We carry next to nothing on top of the drawers, sleeping bags and clothes.

Thanks for everyones replies. The roof rack typically doesn't get used except for hauling a canoe around. It is off 90% of the time.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Hey Brad,
I've followed your truck for years... I ran into a lot of the same stuff. It is hard work but you can bring a spring over down so that it still works nice and low and run 35's. I thought these were too big until I started seeing them stock on some vehicles. With admittedly higher horsepower but a MT or AT 35 (my plan) seems to work. It is definitely doable to make your existing truck much more practical and street friendly and general daily driver material. I had a set of the Michelin XZLs in a 9.00x16 (a 36x16 rim) and ditched them fairly immediately mostly because of the weight and how completely overbuilt they are... Hope it help! Andre

 

[greybrick]

Lexan replacement for the 2 rear glass side windows would save about 15 pounds. If you don't use the rear window wiper, replacing that glass with Lexan would give another 20, and turfing the wiper motor would likely be another 10.

Kind of expensive for new but buying some used reclining adjustable front racing seats could likely save 50 pounds or more. If you have a sunroof replacing that glass with Lexan would save another 15 pounds. A lighter muffler and thinner but as strong stainless exhaust pipes might save as much as 40 - 50 pounds. If you have a steel gas tank you might be able to source a same size plastic tank for probably a 20 - 30 pound saving.

Any steel parts replaced with similar strength T6 aluminum will cut the weight by 1/3. Koyo or similar may have a light weight aluminum replacement radiator if you are still running copper; http://www.koyorad.com/products.html. An efficient lighter battery can often save 10 pounds; http://www.odysseybatteries.com/.

Any chance of modifying the winch so that it is removeable and installs into something like a couple of square tow receivers when needed, that would be like a 100 pounds or more.

Somewhere I read that the Titan pickup got a Dana aluminum driveshaft for some weight and rotational mass saving as an example for something else to do, I think the weight saving is somewhere around 10 pounds over steel.

If you haven't removed the carpet from the front seats back to the rear door yet, that weighs about 50 pounds. Inside the doors there are usually side protectors beams which can weigh 10 - 15 pounds each which could either be turfed or replaced with aluminum. Even changing the steering wheel can lose 10 pounds.

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