Welding Equipment - questions/recommendations?

[CodyLX450]

I've been browsing around trying to gather as much info as possible regarding welders and their capabilities lately.

It seems most people for home garage or small shop use just have some of the smaller stick or mig machines.

From what I gather with the Bobcat and Trailblazer type units, they seem to have the capability of doing all types of welding instead of just 1 type..

Plus they are also generators, plasma cutters and who knows what else.

They are pretty pricey machines, I've seen them running between $2000-$4500 for some used to brand new units.

If price really wasnt an issue, would you run one of these big units, or is there a reason you wouldn't want to?

There are tons of variants of these with different options, gas, LP, diesel engines, etc...

Anyone have feedback?

I plan on doing lots of fab work, bumpers and stuff eventually.

My thoughts so far are that an engine ran welder wouldn't require me to deal with the 110/220 specific outlets, and if the machine could handle plasma cutting too and be a generator and whatever else, thats less equipment to buy seperately.


I found a local Welding Supply shop in town and went window shopping today and gathering information.

For the small difference in price, I'm thinking about going to go for these components:

Trailblazer 302:

Stick (SMAW)
MIG (GMAW)
Flux Cored (FCAW)
DC TIG (DC GTAW)
AC TIG (AC GTAW)
Air Carbon Arc (CAC-A) Cutting and Gouging (Rated: 3/16 in carbons, Capable: 1/4 in carbons)
Air Plasma Cutting and Gouging (PAC) with Optional Spectrum Models

Rated Output at 104° F (40°C)

MIG/FCAW: 300 A at 25 V, 100% duty cycle
DC TIG/Stick: 280 A at 25 V,
100% duty cycle
AC TIG/Stick: 200 A at 25 V, 60% duty cycle
Output Power Range

DC Stick/TIG: 10 - 300 A
AC TIG/Stick: 30 - 225 A
MIG/FCAW: 13 - 35 V, 325 A
Generator Power- rated at 104°F (40°C)

Accu-Rated™ 11,000* Watts Peak
9,500 Watts Continuous
*Note: Kohler = 11,000 W, Subaru/Robin = 10,500 W.



Net Weight

580 lb (263 kg)
Engine

Kohler: 23 HP at 3600 RPM (gas)
Kohler: 25 HP at 3600 RPM (LP)
Subaru/Robin: 22 HP at 3600 RPM (gas)


Millermatic 180:

Plasma - Spectrum 375 X-Treme:

The shop has a small trailer I can mount the big machine too with space for all the other toys that I'd pick up. The shop owner is also willing to set me up with a huge package discount on all the accessories and everything together.

 

[CodyLX450]

Any input on the difference between the Kohler and Subaru engine options available in the welder?

They seem to be the same price with the Kohler having an extra 1hp and 500 watts of peak power.

 

[AndrewP]

I'm not sure I really understand. If you don't have the need for an engine driven welder, don't get one. They are more expensive, loud, require more maintanence, are larger and harder to store etc. Bottom line if you have 230v at your house, you want a 230v welder.

You really only need MIG capability, so all that TIG stuff is wasted on the home welder, especially if you are a newbie. You will want to do MIG with gas, not flux core, trust me.

If you are just building stuff for you and your trucks, then the Millermatic 180 is a great machine. It will do everything you want and isn't expensive. The Millermatic 175 was the equivalent welder until earlier this year and it's basically the same welder and used ones come up all the time.

The next step up is the Millermatic 212. I have a 210 which is the same machine just a couple of years older. This is probably the perfect welder for home and even light commercial use. It will weld up to 3/8 with no problems on one pass. It has a nice stable arc, lots of settings to dial in the way you like it to run, and is built on a heavier chassis than the 180. It comes on it's own cart that also carries the tank, so you don't have to buy that separately.

The MM251/252 is a super great machine, but you are starting to talk more $$. I'll probably get one of these eventually if I keep welding.

Just me, but I'd learn to weld before I went for an engine driven welder. They are really made for mounting on a truck and doing welding at remote sites. You will be very happy welding with a 230v machine. I would not bother with a 110v machine-not enough power for even 1/4 plate.

You definitely want a machine that runs gas-like most people I run 75%argon/25% CO2. Some run pure Co2.

Lincoln makes good stuff too. I'm a "blue" guy (Miller) but I have friends who are "red"(Lincoln) guys. It's one of those Ford vs Chevy things. Avoid Chinese crappy welders. Hobart makes good stuff a little cheaper than the big two, and uses Miller consumable parts since they are made by the same company. Esab is another company to consider.

Have fun. Get a good welding helmet that auto darkens, and about 3 good angle grinders-one with a cutting blade, one with a grinding wheel, and one with a cup brush. You'll need protective clothing, and good gloves.

 

[VikingVince]

You really only need MIG capability, so all that TIG stuff is wasted on the home welder, especially if you are a newbie. You will want to do MIG with gas, not flux core, trust me.

Would you mind elaborating/educating on why gas and not flux core? thanx

 

[Willman]

Millermatic 180 is a great welder!....but for the $$$$ i would step up and get the Millermatic 251!!!

I love mine!

Millermatic 251 is a great shop welder......It can handle thick ga. of metal but still do any thing that you will ever want!

 

[AndrewP]

Would you mind elaborating/educating on why gas and not flux core? thanx

Sure-All welds need to be shielded when hot to avoid oxidizing and ruining the weld. With flux core, it's the molten flux that shields the weld. The flux then has to chipped off after welding. It also spatters a ton more and so there is lots more welding clean up. The one place it's good, is welding outside in the wind. There the gas gets blown off the weld and the flux still stays on the weld. I keep a roll of flux core just for that.

Gas shielding means there is no clean up and very little spatter. It makes for clean neat welding.

MIG is fairly easy to learn. TIG is more of an art. TIG is much much slower for the type of welding one does on 4x4 vehicles, but the super clean perfect symmetrical welds you see on aluminum are usually TIG welds. I'd like to be able to do it, but for the average guy building sliders and bumpers it's way too slow to be practical.

I think a MM180 would be a perfect place to start. If you find you need more power, welders are easy to sell. Like I said, I love my MM210. It has plenty of power, comes with the gas reg, was under $1500. Just understand that the welder itself is just the start. You still need the gas cylinder, helmet, clothing and some specialized tools.

Good luck.

 

[UK4X4]

I've got a hobart 180....the "hobby" range from miller,

only 110V and I use that messy flux core wire,,,,,,,just need chipping hammer and a wire brush.

Not much room in my garage for a bottle, so the convenience of the flux core is fine for me

I'm happy with mine and don't mind a double pass on the thicker stuff

 

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

I've got a Millermatic 251. It's great. Big enough for anything the home shop will ever do. I never considered an engiine driven unit simply because I don't need it. The multiple use machines have more to go wrong with them, which means more down time (And possibly being without any processes at all, while it's getting fixed).

Buying the individual machines lets you tailor the machine to your needs. If one goes down for some reason, you have the other machines to work with. I'm a big fan of Miller welders, but I went with a Hypertherm plasma.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Bottom line if you have 240v at your house, you want a 240v welder.

So if you didn't have the power to run a welder, are engine-drive welders a viable option or not worth the trouble? I don't have 240V and only a single 15A 120V (my garage is detached and from 1920, it's wired with knob-n-tube) and it didn't occur to me until this thread about a welder with an engine.

 

[oldcj5guy]

I have a Miller Bobcat that I run off of Propane because I use it at work inside of our freezers at times. It's 4 years old and has never given me a bit of grief. Even at -20*. I use it a lot outside to run my regular mig, and as a generator for when I am working on the jeep. I don't find it that noisy. It is mounted on wheels and is no problem to move around. I originally bought it to mount to my service truck, but changed jobs while it was in shipment. We are moving back to the farm next year and I am sure that I will us eit a lot around there as both a generator and a welder. Mine is a bobcat 225, and the only thing I dislike is the fact I did the propane. The bottle mounting spot covers where I would have mounted the bottle for the Miller S-32P mig attachment that I bought with the welder.

You might check here for pricing:

http://store.cyberweld.com/milendrivwel.html

Cody I sent you a pm.

 

[AndrewP]

So if you didn't have the power to run a welder, are engine-drive welders a viable option or not worth the trouble? I don't have 240V and only a single 15A 120V (my garage is detached and from 1920, it's wired with knob-n-tube) and it didn't occur to me until this thread about a welder with an engine.

That isn't much garage power!

I would think an engine driven welder would be OK, but they are big and heavy and not really suited to home use. It's taking a simple thing (a welder) and making it needlessly complex. Just the expense alone would make me run away.

If you have a dryer outlet in your house, you have enough power to use a welder. If I remember right, the max draw of the MillerMatic 180 is 19 amps. So you're good on a 30 amp dryer circuit. You can always make up a HD extension cord.

I run my MM210 off a converted dryer circuit. It can draw 29 amps and I've never popped the breaker. You're almost never welding at full power. I was welding some 3/8 the other day and would estimate I was at 2/3 power.

A really good place to shope welders and look at what's out there is Indiana Oxygen(weldingsuppliesatioc) on their ebay store. Just about everyone I know got their welder from those guys and they are top notch.

More than just power, look also at duty cycle. The 212 and above are at least 60% which you will never come close to as a home welder! The 180, while a very nice machine has a 30% duty cycle, but even that is plenty for home projects. Once you start comparing specs you'll realize fast why those 110 welders at homodepot are not worth buying. Like I said, I really have enjoyed my 210 and think the added power and duty cycle was worth the price over the 180. The 250 series has a few other features that would be nice to have if cost were no object.

This is the 180:
http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLER-MILLERMA...yZ113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is the one equivalent to what I have:
http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLERMATIC-212...yZ113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And by the way, those listings are for the welder with a spool gun, which you won't need when you start out. The standard gun only will save you several hundred dollars.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I weld alot, both for work projects, and even more so on my personal projects. I just can't imagine having to fire up a gas operated unit every time I need to make a tack, or at 6am when I'm heading out on a wheeling trip Seems like the same argument as an vehicle based welder, while I have a Ready Welder I use for trail repairs, I can't imagine having my Cruiser idle all day while I weld something up I've heard people using those as their primary welder too (usually in combination with an old buzz box as the power supply).

In all my uses, I'm yet to find one where I needed a stick machine, in fact I sold my old buzz box 3-4 years ago and have never second guessed the decision... TIG, going to cost the same to use a TIG plugged into the wall as it would into a generator... which is ALOT of $$$ and alot of time invested into proper TIG welding. Again I've never really had a need for TIG, and the few times I have it was well worth the cost to pay someone that was very experienced in TIG welding (ie high dollar work that wasn't worth messing up). I learned to TIG in college while building a Mini Baja car, neat, clean, very user controlled, but not that needed for general auto fab and repair IMO. I would personally concentrate your $$$ on a MIG and a Plasma, a torch set if you don't have one too!

My father works in construction, they've put miles and miles of weld out with the engine driven units in the field (Bobcats), where its the most suitable option... Great machines no doubt. But in the shop its all 220V... if you have access to it, why not? Its cheaper to buy a decent home generator if backup power is your sole desire? You mention you don't want to deal with the hassles of "specific outlets", but there really is no hassle at all... most newer homes can be wired to the garage for 220V for a couple hundered bucks if that? If you simply don't have access to 220V I understand, but you can weld alot of simple fab stuff with a 110V welder and plasma.

I run a Millermatic 195 (220V 60% duty) for axles, bumpers, etc and a Millermatic 140 Auto-Set for sheetmetal and lighter stuff, couldn't be happier with Miller products. At the advice of my welding supply salesman (an avid wheeler too), I went with a Hypertherm for the plasma duties, its been an excellent unit too. Whereas I don't do mass production with any of my units, I'd likely be happy with any of them... at the old shop we had a Hobart 250, it was a stellar machine that saw alot of use and abuse, still working to this day. Really I don't think you can go wrong with any of the name brand units (ie Miller, Lincoln, Esab, Hobart, Hypertherm, Thermal Dynamics, etc)... but I've heard plenty of horror stories with the cheapy Lowes/Harbor Freight wire feed units? Honestly I've never tried welding with one though...

 

[oldcj5guy]

I have to agree with cruiseroutfit. I use my bobcat in the freezer a lot where I would have to stretch 300+ft of cord to run a welder. It was bought for field use on a field service truck. I have taken it in the trailer to big runs and the track where it has been a huge help running my miller 210 and other tools.
If I were going to be in my shop and not going anywhere else I would probably purchase a Miller DVI unit. I am actually in the middle of putting the money together to buy a Miller Synchrowave tig.

The bobcat is an awesome machine, but for everyday stuff at the house it is a bit much.

On another note, have your dealer show you where the battery is located. I just put a new one in mine last week and it sucked.

 

[CodyLX450]

See, my thinking so far is that anything I buy is going to be expensive (comparing prices and specs at the store).

I'd prefer to get something that can do everything if I want to expand, especially since I'm seriously considering getting into metal fab for offroad bumpers and stuff not just for myself but as a potential business.

I certainly couldn't use a giant welder here in my current close proximity homes community, but the new house has a 2700 sq ft shop and it's 2 acres between houses out there so its a much better setup for that sort of plan.

If I have to spend a large chunk of change, I don't want to be kicking myself later because of the machine's limitations or have to deal with a short duty cycle on big projects.

I know the shop is wired for 220 (plumbed in, just needs outlets at the junction boxes) - but I'd also hate to buy a really nice welder only to find out that something in the wiring or fuse box was limiting the welders performance.

They are a bit loud (think commercial lawnmower), but couldn't I just add another muffler to tone that down if desired?

It would be a business investment for me and not breaking the bank by any means...

Id be leaving the shop with a full package deal, all the equipment, auto-darkening helmet, coat, gloves, gas, leads, trailer, etc.....everything ready to just connect up and go.

Ive checked ebay, and for the welder, plasma cutter, and mig 180, the guys rough prices were only $600 different than the IOC seller, and he seemed willing to break it all down more once I put in the order. I wouldn't mind paying a bit over ebay's prices to a local welding shop to establish a relationship with a local business either.

 

[oldcj5guy]

www.cyberweld.com is where I have bought a few machines. Free shipping most of the time.