What else should I consider before I purchase a Subaru?

grahamfitter

Expedition Leader
Automatics have been steadily improving over the years in both performance and reliability and for the most part they don't suck and some are pretty good.

I test drove both AT and MT Foresters and I would have been happy with either. The 4 speed auto up to 2013 isn't particularly refined but its ok and its probably better at really low speed driving where the alternative is to slip the clutch to prevent stalling. I ended up with the manual because I got a good deal on one.

(For the record I'm a British ex-pat living in the USA so I'm genetically engineered to drive stick.)
 

MarcFJ60

Adventurer
Have you considered the the H6 Outback with the 5spd auto? When we bought my wife's Altima, we crossed shop Subaru (Legacy sedan). I focused on the H6 as they come with a traditional auto versus the CVT. (I'm done with MTs except my motorcycle and BTW good to see another X owner wander over from ADVrider!)

With all that said, the wife's Altima comes with a CVT and it has been fine. There's a couple small quirks, but works quite well and I still would take that over a MT. But it certainly looks like CVTs in general are more troublesome than traditional ATs. But I don't know anything about the Subaru CVT. Certain Nissan models had many issues with them.

One last thing with respect to new cars: Definitely look at Truecar (I used USAA's buying service, but it is the same thing). I always considered buying services as making things simple and a little cheaper, but couldn't match the best prices out there. But I challenge anybody to beat Truecar's price buy more than $100-200. And it would take lots of legwork to do that.
 

plumber mike

Adventurer
I agree with the convenience of an automatic, but we are considering this vehicle for economical reasons. At $1000 minimum additional buy in, plus my perceived higher cost of ownership in the event of transmission failure, I just don't see an automatic fitting in. The Tahoe is plenty convienient, just not economical. I have also been reading about fuel mileage improvements for that in the event we keep it. 20-30k will buy a lot of fuel.....maybe even a transmission rebuild.

A little perspective from the plumber here. Tankless water heaters. The companies selling these are making huge efficiency claims. Do they burn less fuel when in operation? No. A typical tankless is capable of burning 200,000 btu vs. a traditional tank type using 34-40k. In the unlikely event you do see fuel savings, after the additional increased purchase price and installation, the first repair will take that savings from you and then some, due to the over complicated design. Convienient and space saving....yes, but at a price. More reliable with lower overall cost of ownership? No way.....and my mind sees an automatic or hybrid vehicle in much the same way.

Off topic- I do love my Xcountry. I have spent much time improving it, and testing the improvements. Caribou cases,HDB hand guards , WP4357 forks, 21/18 wheels, custom exhaust and all the usual TT bits. I haven't been over to ADV in a while, as the four and six wheeled have been consuming my time and money lately. A 6' snow in October didn't help either.

As for the new Subie, I'm leaving it my wife's hands. If she wants the auto, she will get the auto. I love her more than a manual transmission.

Thanks again guys. I am certainly enjoying reading what you guys think and drive. This shopping and research has helped me to be a little more open minded about vehicles and brands I would have never considered.

I do still think the subaru is the best in class for us, where we live, and what we will use it for.
 

kojackJKU

Autism Family Travellers!
Like I told her. I have no good reason to want a manual, except for the automatics I've paid to rebuild. A turbo 350,400,700 maybe, but my skills are not up to a cvt or an 8-9 speed auto.

We had considered new but I just don't think I can stomach it. The only way to effectively voice my distaste for new cars, and the government who forced there hand into the industry, is to let them rot on the lot.

The subaru just happened to be the least offensive.....still not totally appealing.

That Cummins/ Suburban thing is getting close, considering I just saved myself from parting with 20-30k.

Thank you all


I put many many kms on my vehicles per year. my latest JK is 2011 with 114000 on it, and no issues with transmissions. I have never had an automatic go out on me. Use regular fluid changes and they live perfectly fine.

I have owned one cvt trans in a 2010 patriot, put 76k on it in one year, with no problems, but I just don't like the way they drive. it's odd to drive one. The patriot is an awesome rig, but I just could not get my brain around the CVT. traded it the next year for my JK and its been perfect. I should have kept the Pat for my wife and trade my mazda 5 in on the JK however.
 

Christophe Noel

Expedition Leader
Without a huge cut and paste, I'll just offer the link for the long-term review I just wrote of our ExPo project Patriot:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/jee...rlander-expo-s-long-term-patriot-project.html

patriot_zpsd61a1f6e.jpg

In a nutshell, I looked at the Outback, Forester, and only a few other options before deciding on the Patriot. The deciding factors came down to: 1) The virtual low range with crawl ratio. It works. 2) The traction control system which seemed superior to the Subaru in technical sections. 3) With minimal negotiation, I got a lifetime warranty for $750. 4) It was MUCH larger inside than the Forester. 5) It was also considerably cheaper.

The other thing that steered me away from the newer Forester was the rather unrefined quality to the build. It felt like it should be far less expensive. Not to say it felt cheap, just cheaper than the Jeep.

I do feel the Patriot will easily outperform a newer Forester off-road. Hands down. But, that's with the RRO lift and only on the now top tier Limited model. Out the door, our Patriot with every single available option, fees, lifetime warranty, and lifetime oil changes was under $26,000.

If I had to swap it today for anything else, I'd swap it for a Cherokee Trailhawk in a heartbeat.
 

bnoland

Observer
We have a 2012 Impreza 2.0i with the CVT. It has been a great car. Not issues at all, we bought it May 2012. I am highly considering the forester for our next vehicle. Looking at reviews and seeing videos both on and off road I see no reason a forester wouldn't do everything you are looking for. I have a 2005 Grand Cherokee as well and to me the Subaru has a much better feel. Lots of hard, cheap plastic in my Grand Cherokee. Considering Subaru is putting the CVT in everything, even the WRX, I cant imagine any issues. If so Subaru is highly over confident in their CVT design. It is a bit strange to get used to though.
 

plumber mike

Adventurer
Once again, a big thank you to all who have contributed to this thread. I visited a friend in the front range and drove a 2014 forester XT that he had just purchased. It was fun. It felt like an arcade game.....in a good way.

We still haven't decided for sure, so I am going back and taking a good look at the patriot. For the price, I owe it to myself to at least drive one. The dealer is only 16 miles from here, so that's a plus if it's like some of the other mopar stuff I've owned. Plus, it's available with a manual transmission AND four wheel drive. I like that I at least have a choice. My wife has fallen victim to the laziness of an automatic. If that's the case, I might as well look at a Limited Patriot, as it is still less than a base forester.

I still think the forester is king of the "new amc eagle station wagon" market.
 

cdthiker

Meandering Idaho
I wanted to bring up something you mentioned a while back about a roof box....

I had a 2010 Subaru outback sport for several years. I racked up 50k miles in about two year on the 2.5 with the 5 speed. over that 50k I averaged about 25/26 MPG
I often travled with a rocket box and ran agressive snow tires in the back sticks of maine running crap gas. It crossed the country several times and on those trips freighted to the roof I could get 30-32 if I behaved cruise set at 70 gave me 28 all day long with the summer tires on it. the rocket box tended to knock off about 2mpg, the rocket box and ski racks with lots of weight, mountains driving and snow tires brought me to my all time low on the highway of 24.5 MPG.

Now, I can not speak for the CVT but one of the reasons that I went for the 5 speed is that its used to ( I think anyways) work better with the AWD. What I mean by this is that you had a more even power distrubuton compared to the auto that had a different ratio. Mine also had the option to turn off all the electronic aids and give it 25 percent to each wheel. That car would spine all four tires in that mode on pavement....

I have driven DOZENS of 4x4 and AWD's Subaru has the best hands down, all day long. Where It starts to struggle is clearence. That car went a lot of place in some deep snow and mud that Subaru never thought it would have. They work better then anything out there, untill they dont, and that is most likely because there is 10-12 inches of something in front of you .
I got rid of mine because I needed to move more stuff ( BMW 650) hay dirt lumber etc. or else I would have kept it. it got replaced with a 2012 taco regular cab base 4x4. manual everything. Sure I miss the heated seats, and mirrors but I like how simple my truck is....
but back to the point, if you are going to buy a subaru for its AWD ablitys and over all driving factor, get a 5 speed, if you want better MPG get the auto and know that over the life time of the car you will get back the money you spent up front for the auto in mpg's

final point, the thing that took me by surprise with my subaru is the extensive " do this work or your warrenty might be void" depending on if you get it done at the stealership vs the local import shop vs your house you can be looking at a lot of money, for excample, the 30k service was almost 500 dollars, the 15k intervals was about 200......
with that being said if you take care of these cars they will last, if all else fails they blow a HG and you replace it and its good for another hundred k
hope this helps.
oh PS if you get one new from the stealership do not sign anything unless you have them give you some cash back for tires, or put another set on.
the bridgestones that go on most of the imprezzas are worthless and you would be lucky to get 25k out of not to mention are deathly in the snow, the yokos that the put on the bigger rigs are also crap and have weak sidewalls.
if your looking for skid plate and light mods check out dirtyimpreza.com
good luck
 

Rosco862003

Adventurer
I'm an 06 Impreza 2.5i 5m owner and couldn't be happier with it. I would recommend that if you haven't already you test drive a manual in these cars. I came out of a 93 Miata that was all mechanical and had one of the best shifters in the world, and went to Drive by wire (Subaru). For whatever reason I didn't notice it that much on my test drive, but as time marched on I noticed that the mechanical feel, and what I loved so much about manuals was gone. The revs seemed to hang a second in between shifts requiring you to wait a tad longer before slipping into the next gear. I don't know how to exactly explain it, but it seems as though I hit the gas pedal, it goes to a computer, get's processed, goes to congress where it's gets passed or vetoed, and then from there the car decides if it wants to give me throttle input equivalent to what my foot is saying. Sometimes it just doesn't seem to get it right, whereas in my Miata, the car somehow knew what I was going to do before I even made an input. I know this is an apples to oranges comparison but I use it to illustrate that having a manual doesn't equate to pure mechanical input 100% of the time unfortunately. I'm still happy that I decided to get a manual over the 4 speed auto as I do tend to toss my car in the corners a bit harder than I would, say a truck based DD. After driving a friends 2010 Impreza with the 4 speed auto, I'm much happier rowing through the gears.

As someone mentioned earlier, the manual transmission based AWD cars is considered to give a more equal distribution of power vs the Auto based systems and I can say that I've tested the AWD out on snow, mud, ice, and deep sand that had much larger trucks stuck. I only got stuck in the sand once, because I (stupidly) stopped right on the entrance of the beach. However this car's ability has surprised me on multiple occasions, and has never left me stuck otherwise. I believe the other advantage to these cars is the low CG in comparison due to the boxer motor and lighter weight, which keeps you on top of soft surfaces as opposed to sinking through.. If you're looking at the 2014 model Forester and Outbacks, safety is another huge advantage as they were selected as iihs top safety picks +, with the Forester scoring better in the small overlap test than the Outback. I feel as though these cars are able to handle more than what most owners should be throwing their way, but if you do find yourself needing a bit more help, I'm sure the newer models still use the old R160 rear diff that's been going in Datsun's and Subaru's for several decades. The aftermarket support for these differentials is pretty big and limited slips are plentiful, albeit pricey. If you REALLY want to build a truly capable platform, swap in an R180 differential and put an ARB locker in it. I think this would be overkill but I don't know how bad those roads are of yours, and it's always fun to dream about an ARB locked Subaru:coffeedrink:

As far as mileage goes I consistently get 27 in the city and have gotten as much as 35mpg on the highway on a trip out to Myrtle Beach. Just over Christmas I averaged 34mpg, and this was going through lights in smaller towns and through the Appalachian mountains with some spirited driving on the switchbacks. I will say that when on the open road I find myself drafting semis (not the safest practice I know, but it works). Having said that, my understanding is that Subaru is very conservative with their fuel ratings and I have never gotten the 20mpg city/27mpg hwy this car was rated for. Also consider Resale value, which Subaru's are pretty good at keeping.
 

plumber mike

Adventurer
In the end....

image.jpg

Well in the end, the wife and I couldn't agree on a family car, and decided to keep the tahoe. I did however pick up this little Zuki for about half the price of a similar subaru.

We currently spend between 600-1000 per month in fuel. This car should pay for itself. I also like the fact that it has 2wd, awd or 4wd lock as an option.
 

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