Winch & line used like a tow rope?

[VikingVince]

Encountered a situation today where I wasn't certain of the answer:

Just got 3 feet of fresh snow over the last few days. Today I stopped to help two elderly gentleman who had gotten their 2WD Astro van stuck in a roadside parking area about 50 feet from the road. (they were both well over 80 and totally frazzled by their situation) I winched their vehicle to within 15 feet of my truck and then had to put my truck on the road to winch them out the last 10 feet. No problems.

Of course there were several other guys standing around offering their "advice." For that last 10 feet, one guy kept telling me to just back up my truck, thereby effectively using the winch line as a tow rope. (then I wouldn't have had to put my truck on the road). I thought about it for a moment but it seemed like a bad idea...slightly uphill, packed frozen snow ridges, could have been a sudden excessive jerk on the line causing it to snap/damage the winch? So I opted for what I knew.

So what do you more experienced winchers (is that a word?) say? Thanks

 

[motomech]

I personally do not like pulling heavy things in reverse.

I did it once and twisted my front drive shaft, it could have been a coincidence but since then i dont do it.

I do not think it will hurt the winch at all.

 

[Layonnn]

I personally do not like pulling heavy things in reverse.

I did it once and twisted my front drive shaft, it could have been a coincidence but since then i dont do it.

I do not think it will hurt the winch at all.

x2. Look at a ring and pinion, they were not built to have as much strength in reverse. (not talking about the gearing of reverse, but the shape of the ring/pinion). It is designed to be the strongest when moving the vehicle forward.

Not sure, but you want to make sure you are not in park as well. Be in neutral so that you are using the brakes to hold your vehicle, not the transmission. I would have done what you did, stopped pulling, backed up while letting out line, then winched again.
(note: I am assuming that the vehicle was not slipping very much when you re-positioned and that if the vehicle DID slip, it would be okay, as in not go off a cliff.)

 

[Brian McVickers]

Hi Vince,
I hope you are well, it's been a while since I've had the pleasure of talking with you!

I think you did right, doing what you know is always a safe bet.
As I understand it, pulling heavy loads in reverse can cause problems. Most drive lines just aren't engineered for it.

Somewhere, I believe Goodtimes provided a more scientific explanation.

If you only had the winch and no strap then you did what I would have done. Airing their tires down to crawl through the ice and snow could have worked but then again driving the rest of the way and airing back up would have been its own issue for the gentlemen you described.

Regards
Brian:wavey:

 

[IH8RDS]

I was always told never to pull/tow with a winch line because in messes with the internal workings of the winch. I maybe wrong though.

 

[Crikeymike]

I think that puts a lot of load on the brake of the winch, if you were to drive in reverse while it's attached. It doesn't seem like a good idea to me either, so I think you handled it properly.

As far as reverse goes, I know that I never snatch someone out in reverse, and I never backup real hard in reverse. The front aluminum housing in my sidekick has been known to snap the mounts right off the housing from excessive torque.

I bet the old fellas were very happy that you offered to help. Hopefully it didn't happen again to them just around the corner.

 

[SAR_Squid79]

You did the right thing!

...At least - you did the exact same thing I would have done (almost). I carry a 50' winchline extension that I would have used, but if I was in your situation, and had no extension - I would have done exactly what you did.

I remember reading an article in the last couple of years that talked about how you should NEVER use your winch line as a tow line, or recovery strap. There were tons of reasons why. And as has already been stated, I would not snatch someone in Reverse unless there was no alternative.

Good job!

 

[crawler#976]

Vince, You did the right thing.

A winch is not designed for yanking. Nor is a chain...

Use a recovery strap or rope that has stretch engineered into it for that. Synthetic rope or steel cable is not designed for a shock load. The stretch factor is virtually zero. Cable will snap and synthetic rope is even worse for breaking.

The cable or winch rope has a load limit for a static pull, and it's not that much higher than the rating of the winch. My synthetic line is rated to 13500 on a M8000, while my 3" x 30' yanker is rated to 30000.

Yanking on a winch will also bind up your cable or rope. When it's reeled in under load, it is wound in some what neatly. If yanked on it will bury itself into the wraps on the drum, possibly getting bound up, kinked or otherwise damaging the line.

Also, it's one of the real oddities of winching, but I've seen it over and over on ice and snow. A vehicle parked on ice can winch out a stuck rig when it can't even back up with a strap attached.

As to pulling from the front, I've done it, and will again, but I'm always cautious about it.

Have fun!

Mark

 

[michaelgroves]

The winch rope, whether wire or synthetic, is also not suitable for using as a towing line. It's designed to have so little stretch that it can't absorb the shock when slack is taken up suddenly by a heavy vehicle, even at manoeuvring speeds. It's not good for the rope, nor for the winch it's attached to! (As you can imagine, the momentary shock load can be far greater than the winch's rated capacity).

 

[KevinNY]

Ditto, you did it right. A strap is a strap and a winch line is a winch line and it is amazing how many people don't get this.

 

[btggraphix]

.......I carry a 50' winchline extension that I would have used, but if I was in your situation, and had no extension - I would have done exactly what you did.

I have a spool of cable that is the same diameter as my winchline....I would like to make an extension like yours (the size cable my 16.5 winch uses doesn't allow for much length!) using the spool. What sort of hardware is best for tieing the ends off? Do you just have a loop of cable, or do you have hooks or what?

To the OP, good work on helping out the old guys.....it's nice to have the equipment to help others out like that...and be a calming influence when people are freaked out.

 

[VikingVince]

Gentleman,

Thanks much for your responses and additional info...good ol ExPo! :clapsmile
No more questions in my mind about the issue anymore...I suspected the "advice guy" was off-track but it did leave me wondering even though I knew a winch line wasn't designed for that.

Brian...thanks for the "hello"...hope all is well with you and your family. I had Mario and Co. at AT install some rear air bags a few months ago. We had some smiles recalling your air bag pop on El Camino del Diablo!

Gents...Here's another kinda-funny, kinda-sad aspect of helping these two elderly gents. As I mentioned, they were quite frazzled. After I hooked up my winch line, I told the driver to "just leave it in neutral, don't do anything, don't try to drive forward when I'm pulling you, just leave it in neutral until I come back to you, okay?" He said okay. Well...after I winched him up to within 15 feet of my truck, I got out and headed back to his vehicle. His engine was revving incredibly high and staying there. I hussled over to the driver window and asked him what's going on with his engine. He just looked confused and said, "I don't know." I stuck my head in the drivers window and the rpm's were way up in the red zone and staying there. I said to him, "Is your foot on the gas pedal?" He said, "oh my god" and took his foot off the pedal. You should have seen the sheepish, embarrassed look on the old fellas face. While being slowly winched forward, he had unconsciously/instinctively been laying on the accelerator. Amazing, huh?

Thanks again, gents.

 

[DaktariEd]

... I stuck my head in the drivers window and the rpm's were way up in the red zone and staying there. I said to him, "Is your foot on the gas pedal?" He said, "oh my god" and took his foot off the pedal. You should have seen the sheepish, embarrassed look on the old fellas face. While being slowly winched forward, he had unconsciously/instinctively been laying on the accelerator. Amazing, huh?

Thanks again, gents.

Lucky he didn't put it back in gear at high rpm and slam into your front end....or into you!
Good work though....

 

[XJINTX]

Isn't it funny how there are always others standing around with their thumb up their you know what that always have an opinion. More than not they disagree with what is being done no matter!

You did right and even if you had not you were were right in doing what you knew because it worked once before for you.

Good Kharma to you and I hope they "Pay it Forward"

 

[Bongo Boy]

Everyone seems to agree you did the right thing, and I certainly won't argue with that. But there's a kind of generalization to the responses that I'd like to express (and receive) opinion on. The responses in some cases seem to equate towing with yanking or towing with recovery or recovery with yanking. So, that's my concern.

In the Ancient Times, there were no synthetic lines and we never had cables, either. We had chains. So, 'yanking' wasn't an option. People often tried it with chains, even some folks who were in the business and should have known better. My point here is that extraction and towing can both be safely done with virtually no yanking (even though I'll concede extraction might not be successfully done without a nice jerk). While I'll agree right up front that during a tow jerking can occur, it's something that can be avoided rather easily if the towed vehicle has adequate braking ability.

So...my Big Point is, I see little or no difference between the use of a winch extension line and the use of chain. The winch line is far stronger than most commonly-used chain, and will likely absorb some jerk better than chain. But, again, yanking is just ONE technique for recovery--it's just an option you don't have available to you using a winch line (or a chain). I'm NOT saying 'chain makes a great tow strap', I'm saying I think similar rules apply in using chain and winch line this way.

The comments above about not using the winch line this way make sense to me, but I guess I'd like to distinguish between use of a winch line on a winch and a winch line extension, used as the equivalent of a chain, and not attached in any way to the winch.

If I'm off-base here, let me have it. I'm only saying that yanking isn't always needed and isn't always that great an idea anyway. Where a pull for recovery or for a tow is sufficient, I don't seen how use of a winch line extension is any problem provided the driver of the tow vehicle understands how to maintain a jerk-free system.

I'm asserting that "never use a winch line as a tow line" is not a good, blanket statement. You need some qualification. Comments?