Could newer Rovers survive the Camel Trophy of the past?

[David Harris]

As the interest in and experience with the newer LR3/4 and L322 Rovers grows out there, I've been wondering what the consensus would be on the hard core performance and survivability of these vehicles should they replace the Discovery 1, Defender and RRC of past Camel Trophy events. The events' routes, obstacles, including the water parts, and conditions would have to remain the same. The only difference would be the substitution of the new Rovers for the old. They would be allowed the same preparation and support of the original vehicles, including using diesel models.

They seem to have better reliability and very good off road capability with their electronic systems, but could they take that kind of pounding and make it to the end?

 

[proper4wd]

In all fairness, the Defenders/Discoveries didn't really "survive" that well either. They regularly had parts air dropped by helicopters and changed in the field (including entire front axle assemblies) and in many cases the vehicles were essentially destroyed by the end of the trek.

 

[David Harris]

In all fairness, the Defenders/Discoveries didn't really "survive" that well either. They regularly had parts air dropped by helicopters and changed in the field (including entire front axle assemblies) and in many cases the vehicles were essentially destroyed by the end of the trek.

Yes. But they were repaired on site and kept going to the end. That would be allowed for the newer as well. From looking at the videos, the majority of them kept going day to day without significant problems.

Personally I think the newer Rovers could do it to a point, but would require a lot more repairs than the older ones, especially electronics, after going through the water they did back then. I'm envisioning half of the vehicles down at any point due to such problems. These are just guesses on my part.

Any feedback from those knowledgeable on the systems in these trucks?

 

[proper4wd]

I could comment intelligently with my background as a Certified LR tech, having worked on the vehicles through the 11 model year.

Pretty simply there's no way the car could survive repeated dunks over the doorhandles in muddy water in stock form. The basic electrics can handle it, its the data buses that will fail. I would enjoy the opportunity to push one to its limit though, because I think it would sustain more electronic abuse than expected. Just not this:

That being said, I have no doubts that a basically prepped (Camel Trophy spec) diesel/manual trans LR4 would do 90% of the Camel Trophy, at 200% the performance of the Discovery.

Its that last 10% that involved foolish water crossings that is the limiting factor. Mud, jungle crossings, high altitude, high speed off road driving... the LR4 platform would be far superior in performance and durability than a Discovery.

 

[David Harris]

What's your opinion on the durability of the air suspension? In the special tasks those Discos were abused pretty badly sometimes, getting slammed down on their bump stops repeatedly. Could the airbags and compressor stand up to repeated pounding? There's also the question of dust and mud. I remember reading about a couple taking a diesel L322 from London to Capetown. The vehicle made it without any breakdowns, but some of the electrics were no longer working due to dust contamination.

Also, I don't see a manual transmission option for the LR4, even in the UK? Is there such a thing? An automatic would also limit what the truck could do in those conditions.

 

[achampagne]

I agree with the above, water is no trucks friend.

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

What ever happened to "check the water depth before proceeding" thought process?

 

[David Harris]

What ever happened to "check the water depth before proceeding" thought process?

They did that in the Camel Trophy. They chose the deepest possible. . .

 

[baja5337]

I don't know, I think that at that extreme limit the newer Rovers would start to show their weakness. In my opinion it wouldn't be mechanical failures that hobbled them but electronic failures. I don't think the eas compressor could keep up with the suspensions needs and would overheat and shut down. I think the traction control system would also overheat and fault out. If either system fails it cripples the newer rovers, where on the discovery those types of systems didn't exist and the vehicle used tradition 4wd and coil springs.

In 2905 my dealership was prerunning Hells Revenge for our annual customer retreat. And we had a bunch of lr3's running the trail. One of them had a complete terrain response failure mid trail. Suspension dropped to the bump stops and all electronic assistance systems shut down. We had 3 LR master techs with us and there was no way to reboot the computers without IDS. So we literally drug the car through the rest of the trail.

 

[achampagne]

I would presume that the IDS tool would be part of the kit brought on this adventure.

 

[proper4wd]

You can reboot all the computers in the field.

Disconnect the postive battery cable. Connect a jumper wire from the DISCONNECTED positive cable, to the negative cable. Allow to sit for ~5 minutes. Remove jumper wire, reconnect positive cable. Restart vehicle.

This is referred to as a "hard reset" and clears all memory and forces the control modules to reboot from a static condition. It will not clear hard faults in the system, but it does clear "confusion" and corrupted messages.

 

[proper4wd]

I would also like to point out that in the scheme of Camel Trophy, changing air springs or air compressors trail side would be expected. If Discoveries "survived" by having axle assemblies air dropped from helicopters into the middle of the jungle, changing out a compressor should be acceptable!

 

[David Harris]

I would also like to point out that in the scheme of Camel Trophy, changing air springs or air compressors trail side would be expected. If Discoveries "survived" by having axle assemblies air dropped from helicopters into the middle of the jungle, changing out a compressor should be acceptable!

I totally agree. What's the breaking point of the air suspension? That's the question. How hard a hit can it take? If it's too fragile, it's going to be breaking constantly, especially at speed, and with the weight of the vehicle involved.

 

[PhyrraM]

If it was to happen today, I would guess that the ECUs would be replaced with weather-proof militarized versions. I would guess this was even done back then if there was anything that required it. Most types of race cars already do this, even many 'stock' classes.

I tend to agree though, the details would be different - but the overall level of the challenge would be about the same.

 

[David Harris]

If it was to happen today, I would guess that the ECUs would be replaced with weather-proof militarized versions. I would guess this was even done back then if there was anything that required it. Most types of race cars already do this, even many 'stock' classes.

I tend to agree though, the details would be different - but the overall level of the challenge would be about the same.

On the military ECU question, it's my understanding that when the ECU run diesels came out, Land Rover continued to produce the mechanical 300 Tdi for the military market due to concern over their durability in such use.