Whats wrong with Panniers?
- Thread starter madmax718
- Start date
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
My wife runs panniers using an Old Man Mountain rack on her Superlight. On our most recent hut trip another fella, not a part of our group, rode up with panniers. Nothing wrong with them, I just think in bikepacking people don't like the weight and they are less agile than frame packs and do tend to bounce around more.
Another problem in technical is they make the front end of your bike light if you don't run a front rack, which can be a pain with shocks and front bags do present more problems on single track. Plus two racks and four panniers ends up costing a lot of weight. In the end for trips that panniers work I find a trailer to be about comparable on the PITA scale, so we just use them for less technical trips and times you want to carry more junk, like 6 packs and good food to a hut.
We have another trip coming up next month through the San Juans. I won't be dragging a trailer then in lieu of the low drag outfit.
Another problem in technical is they make the front end of your bike light if you don't run a front rack, which can be a pain with shocks and front bags do present more problems on single track. Plus two racks and four panniers ends up costing a lot of weight. In the end for trips that panniers work I find a trailer to be about comparable on the PITA scale, so we just use them for less technical trips and times you want to carry more junk, like 6 packs and good food to a hut.
We have another trip coming up next month through the San Juans. I won't be dragging a trailer then in lieu of the low drag outfit.
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Christophe Noel
Expedition Leader
There are a bunch of reasons why panniers are not favored for bikepacking. For one, the entire premise behind bikepacking is two-fold. First, to be able to ride your bike with as much fun and enthusiasm as you do every day. Secondly, to do that on terrain that is fun to ride, mostly singletrack. Touring, as traditionally defined with panniers, is almost just an exercise in hauling all of your crap from A to B with little regard for how fun and spirited the ride is.
Bikepacking bags (rack less) keep the weight balanced across the entire bike. They keep the bike profile slim, and in most cases, there's usually way less than 15 pounds of gear on the bike. In other words, you can rail turns, launch over water bars, and generally ride your mountain bike like you want to ride your mountain bike. Hit a jump with panniers and you'll leave behind a crater, filled with busted panniers.
Bikepacking on singletrack also requires a good deal of hike-a-bike. Trail builders didn't always think of us poor sods on bikes. Pushing a bike around panniers is a pain in the butt. Plus, panniers leverage your gear off the sides of the bikes, which feels odd. Lastly, I don't care how good your racks and panniers are, they rattle around and in true offroad settings, just do not hold up. I've ridden thousands of miles with panniers on pavement with no problem only to have the same panniers fall to pieces on a real offroad romp.
I think the primary reason is that bikepacking is all about being as light as possible. Not just pretty light, or even ultra-light. I'm talking hyper-light. As such, few would even need the space of two small rear panniers.
Bikepacking bags (rack less) keep the weight balanced across the entire bike. They keep the bike profile slim, and in most cases, there's usually way less than 15 pounds of gear on the bike. In other words, you can rail turns, launch over water bars, and generally ride your mountain bike like you want to ride your mountain bike. Hit a jump with panniers and you'll leave behind a crater, filled with busted panniers.
Bikepacking on singletrack also requires a good deal of hike-a-bike. Trail builders didn't always think of us poor sods on bikes. Pushing a bike around panniers is a pain in the butt. Plus, panniers leverage your gear off the sides of the bikes, which feels odd. Lastly, I don't care how good your racks and panniers are, they rattle around and in true offroad settings, just do not hold up. I've ridden thousands of miles with panniers on pavement with no problem only to have the same panniers fall to pieces on a real offroad romp.
I think the primary reason is that bikepacking is all about being as light as possible. Not just pretty light, or even ultra-light. I'm talking hyper-light. As such, few would even need the space of two small rear panniers.
Christophe Noel
Expedition Leader
Sorry, I can't help but share this story. A few years ago I was bikepacking near Telluride. I rolled up to the trailhead just as five guys with full panniers were ready to roll out. They immediately starting giggling and pointing at me making snarky remarks about my one gear and tiny amount of stuff. One guy said, "hope you're not planning on staying the night out here with that amount of gear." Ya, ya. What-evs. Because they were more ready to ride out that I was, I gave them a good 30 minute head start to I could ride in peace.
An hour later I found a giant yellow pannier on the trail. It had to weigh at least 15 pounds, so I sat it on a rock by the trail and rode on. A couple miles later I see one of the trailhead tough guys riding towards me with...three yellow panniers. He asked me, "Did you see a yellow pannier back there?" I said, "Yep, about two miles up the hill." The guy looked at me and no kidding said, "Dude, why didn't you pick it up and ride with it, you knew we were just ahead of you."
Uh...because IT'S YOUR PANNIER!!!!
An hour later I found a giant yellow pannier on the trail. It had to weigh at least 15 pounds, so I sat it on a rock by the trail and rode on. A couple miles later I see one of the trailhead tough guys riding towards me with...three yellow panniers. He asked me, "Did you see a yellow pannier back there?" I said, "Yep, about two miles up the hill." The guy looked at me and no kidding said, "Dude, why didn't you pick it up and ride with it, you knew we were just ahead of you."
Uh...because IT'S YOUR PANNIER!!!!
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Pannier attachment is critical off pavement. Even the cheesy hook-and-bungie can work on the road, but is useless off. The system my wife uses is the Arkel, which is a positive locking cam and made from aluminum. She adapted them to her Jandd panniers and has yet to lose one since, probably now 4 or 5 years. But these make an already heavy system that much heavier.
Was looking into this, I backpack, I mountain bike, I road bike, but since I have the rack and pannier for my road, figured I could at least use the pannier and adapt it to the mountain. Only my old 15+ year old rigid bike has the proper drop outs for my rack. My FS bike does not. The amount of gear looks rather small that you guys carry, but its pretty much the same I carry backpacking. was just hoping not to buy another "specialized" set of.. stuff. Could always do it like back in high school- a backpack. So not cool looking though.
Was looking into this, I backpack, I mountain bike, I road bike, but since I have the rack and pannier for my road, figured I could at least use the pannier and adapt it to the mountain. Only my old 15+ year old rigid bike has the proper drop outs for my rack. My FS bike does not. The amount of gear looks rather small that you guys carry, but its pretty much the same I carry backpacking. was just hoping not to buy another "specialized" set of.. stuff. Could always do it like back in high school- a backpack. So not cool looking though.
But your right about the bouncing.
But your right about the bouncing.
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Nothing wrong with carrying a backpack, but too big and you start suffering in a different way than with panniers. You can do a mix and match, a Jandd frame bag isn't expensive and would take some of the load off the back. You have stuff sacks, so just rig up a couple of straps and make yourself a handlebar roll. Doesn't have to be high zoot designer junk to get started.
Christophe Noel
Expedition Leader
I have been a pretty avid backpacker all of my life. I thought I was an ultra-light packer until I started bikepacking. You really do have to go pretty light to get maximum enjoyment out of it.
I try not to carry more than 7-8 pounds on my back when bikepacking. Any more than that and it kills my sit bones. It also just feels odd. As Dave said, you can usually get away with strapping some stuff to your bars, but be careful with your cables. You can also use your rear rack to hold a dry back on top of the rack. That's a nice alternative to a seat bag and way less awkward than rear panniers.
I try not to carry more than 7-8 pounds on my back when bikepacking. Any more than that and it kills my sit bones. It also just feels odd. As Dave said, you can usually get away with strapping some stuff to your bars, but be careful with your cables. You can also use your rear rack to hold a dry back on top of the rack. That's a nice alternative to a seat bag and way less awkward than rear panniers.
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
For the handlebar bag you can use foam spacers to push the bag away from the controls. It's a little expensive for the amount you need, but Harbor Freight sells foam floor panels that make great source for high density EVA foam.
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-anti-fatigue-foam-mat-set-94635.html
What you're trying to mimic is the way Relevate does it:
The commercial bags and the ones most people make have a little rod or plastic backing sheet to support the bag, so these spacers are between the bars and a stiffener, but I don't see why they wouldn't work without one. Might have to experiment, make them a little larger in surface area to keep them from sinking into the stuff sack.
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-anti-fatigue-foam-mat-set-94635.html
What you're trying to mimic is the way Relevate does it:
The commercial bags and the ones most people make have a little rod or plastic backing sheet to support the bag, so these spacers are between the bars and a stiffener, but I don't see why they wouldn't work without one. Might have to experiment, make them a little larger in surface area to keep them from sinking into the stuff sack.
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jamesfuller
Observer
My set up I've been using for years now is panniers on an aluminium Boryueh rack and a hydration/backpack with an extra bottle or two in the frame and a small frame bag for easy access snacks. I found it works well on my admittedly quite ancient road bike, touring bike and modern mtb.
I spent a bit of time getting it just how I want it and making all fixing points very strong.
Quite simply, in my opinion if panniers are moving around they are overloaded or not fitted correctly.
I spent a bit of time getting it just how I want it and making all fixing points very strong.
Quite simply, in my opinion if panniers are moving around they are overloaded or not fitted correctly.
