Off-Grid Camping- Solar Power/Wind Power- Ac, Heat, Fridge, Lights, Etc

[Projectm880]

I want to start a discussion about Solar Power/Wind Power On a short term Camper. The only solar power I have had experience with is a trickle charger on a truck battery and the mini solar cell on my Calculator. I've been reading several post here and following links to see what products are out there.

I want to build a slide in truck camper or a Very small camper to mount on a flat bed trailer that I tow my RamCharger on.

Some of the ORV Parks I go to only offer primitive camping and typically the Cabins they offer to rent are expensive.

What I want to Know is it possible to run any type of AC, Heater, and or Fridge running off Solar or Wind power with batteries over a weekend. I know I can run a Propane heater, so I'm not to concerned if i Can't run a electric one. I know ARB has some small fridges you can run for a weekend. But what About AC?

Texas Heat is brutal during the summer and it would be nice to have AC at least at night time.

What I'm Looking for-

1. AC during Night time hours / Sleeping Hours.

2. Small Fridge for summer months camping.

3. Lighting system both inside and out.

Is any of this possible with a battery setup on Solar and/or Wind power? I just want to see if its plausible or if I should just go the Generator route, which I really would like to avoid because i enjoy the quiet outdoors.


Thanks For any and all help {cool}

 

[libarata]

Wind power is going to be with some noise. But if you can source a reasonable vertical axis spinner doodad, http://www.amazon.com/WGV45W-Reside...97&sr=8-1&keywords=vertical+axis+wind+turbine and a reasonable permanent magnet alternator(bicycle dynamo), and you still need to build the structure, and hope you can find wind enough for it. Solar will be far easier, and I am sure some folks will be able to steer you in the right way. One thing to consider, is to shield your structure with a secondary tarp from the sun, and keep a few 12v fans replacing the air inside constantly.

 

[dwh]

Small fridge, no problem.
Propane heat, no problem - unless it's an RV style propane heater which can and will suck a battery dry in one night.

Electric heat, possible if it's very small - like an electric blanket.
A/C - forget it.


Running a/c off-grid is a common desire. It can be done. It requires only one thing - a gigantic battery bank. And that's just to run it at night while sleeping.

For one night that is...

To do more than that, requires a few things - way too much battery plus way too much solar in order to recharge that battery. And then you'll also need way too much insulation and the most efficient a/c unit you can get in order to be able shrink the required battery from gigantic down to merely enormous.


Small wind is essentially useless. You might charge your phone from it. You might even run your fridge from it - though that's unlikely. You certainly won't run a/c from it. Small solar is somewhat more useful, but still not a lot of power. Enough to run your fridge and some LED lights.


For a weekend only rig, you shouldn't need either solar or wind. Just a lot of battery that you charge up at home before you leave, and recharge when you get home. Get 500 lb.s of battery and you might run a tiny a/c unit for two nights. Of course, the batteries won't last but a couple of years under that sort of regimen.

If you must have a/c, but you can't carry a 1/4 ton of batteries, then you'll need a generator.

 

[DiploStrat]

Earthroamer does it ...

and so do I. You can read more here and see if any of this applies to what you are trying to do: http://diplostrat.org/about/

Basically:

-- Really small A/C, 6,000 BTU or less.

-- Really BIG inverter, 2800w or more.

-- Lots and Lots of batteries, 600Ah or more.

-- Miles of solar, 500w or more.

Hope on the horizon:

-- Lithium batteries, and,

-- 12v A/C. Arctic Breeze have installed a unit in a Sprinter camper, taking advantage of their modular design. http://www.arcticbreeze-truckac.com

 

[dwh]

Also I should have noted. For the fridge, I'm talking about a very efficient DC type fridge. The typical RV 3-way does pretty good on propane, but uses a butt-load of power when running on electricity. I've got the smallest 3-way that Norcold makes - the 323 model. It will run 3 weeks on high from a 5 gallon tank of propane, and 5 weeks on low.

But running on 12v DC it draws 12 amps - which would suck a 120ah deep cycle battery dry in 10 hours.

 

[Projectm880]

Thank You for your Replies, Like I said my knowledge on solar and wind power is limited. That's why I'm beginning my research now to better understand my limitations. Before I just go buy a bunch of equipment that won't work.

As stated above, it's good to know I can run some Basic system such as a small fridge and lighting. Possible low draw fan's could also be a plus.
My Brother actually uses a Ice Chest and Fan set up to cool the camper shell on his 8ft bed truck during road trips while his dog is back there. I have no idea how well this works.

Heater I know I can handle with propane and/or a small electric system.

I did figure AC would be a long shot but I will do some research on the link provided http://www.arcticbreeze-truckac.com/index.html . Maybe I can set this up in a sleeping area only, which would limit the sqfts it would have to cool. So some small possibilities to research.

Even though I have generators in different shapes in sizes that would fit my needs, I am simply looking for alternatives to hauling the generator and fuel when I do extended Adventure trips that aren't just base camping at parks.

Thank you all for the information,and I look forward to anymore suggestions or additional information you can give me.

Eric

 

[dwh]

Thank You for your Replies, Like I said my knowledge on solar and wind power is limited. That's why I'm beginning my research now to better understand my limitations. Before I just go buy a bunch of equipment that won't work.

If you have enough of solar or wind, and are very careful with your power use, it can be made to work. That's pretty common on an off-grid cabin setup. Though most will also have a generator just in case.

For mobile use, the real estate for solar is limited, often very limited, and that makes it a lot tougher. On the plus side though, you have a generator running (the truck's alternator) when driving, so that ends up usuallly being the primary source of charging power and the solar just sort of helps out.

Even though I have generators in different shapes in sizes that would fit my needs, I am simply looking for alternatives to hauling the generator and fuel when I do extended Adventure trips that aren't just base camping at parks.

A Honda eu2000i with the 5 gallon extra tank modification, plus a 5000 BTU window unit would probably get you through a weekend just fine. I'd go for a decent high-efficiency window unit, like a Frigidaire, rather than a "Cheapo from Home Depot".

One thing to note about the high-efficiency DC unit that DiploStrat referenced - even though it's *more* efficient, it still needs a BigAss(tm) battery bank. Those sorts of units are generally designed to cool a semi-tractor sleeper cab for 8 hours, and then be recharged the next day while the rig runs down the road.

 

[DiploStrat]

Some round Numbers

There is a grim irony; a small camper needs less heat and A/C, but has less room for solar and batteries. All of these things tend to expand, in space and weight, very quickly. About those numbers:

-- In cool weather with the refrigerator and heat on, I guesstimate about 5A per hour of drain, with increases for bursts of high fan, etc. This includes random draws like the water pump, composting toilet, etc. The actual number is probably a bit lower than what I am quoting, but I prefer to assume the worst. Call it 75-100Ah.

-- Induction stove or microwave will pull between 150 and 180A when running full on. How long do they run? What's for dinner?

-- 6k BTU A/C through an inverter pulls 50-60A with the compressor running. (200+A starting surge) Draws between 10 and 15A when on fan only. How long does the compressor run? What is the temperature, how big is your camper, and how well is it insulated?

-- 500w of solar can give around 30A of power in good sun. (Think American southwest.) Will easily do 20A in the winter. So the question is, how many hours do you have and what is the angle of the sun?

Depending on the menu and the weather, I find that this works out to 125-150A between sunset (batteries full) and engine start the next morning, after fixing breakfast. Using the classic 50% rule, this would demand:

-- Minimum battery bank of 300Ah.

-- Minimum alternator capable of 100A, running for at least three hours.

-- Decent solar for three to six hours.

All of this is per day and ignores air conditioning. Why? I simply never got hot enough to run the air conditioning last year. Stay tuned for this year.

My goal was three days without any sunlight or engine run; I got two comfortably, three if I am willing to exceed the 50% rule. Which, according to Lifeline, you can do, but ONLY if the batteries are immediately placed on charge. You cannot leave them discharged for an extended period.

So, do you need a genset? I don't have one and have never regretted it, but I am going to add a diesel stove. Similarly, I have never heard of an Earthroamer owner selling one because it does not have a genset.

If you do go with a genset, I would look at the Yamaha or Honda variable speed models; they are much, much quieter.

 

[dwh]

And when you say, "small fridge" I do hope you aren't talking about a 120v bar fridge. Those draw a lot of power for their size.

 

[DiploStrat]

And don't forget the espresso machine! And the Aerolatte machine! We gotta have standards.

 

[java]

Coming from the RV side of things, Mine was not built to run on batteries long. It was designed to park and plug in or run the gen set. (it was a radio truck, high electrical draw once it was on site!) It has 2 group 24, iirc, flooded cell lead acid batteries, not ideal. The Rv fridge (12V only) and heater, with modest light use in the night COMPLETELY kill the batteries overnight. Under 12V after 10-12 hrs etc. I have 300W of solar, and in good sun it will put some juice back in. But it really takes running the generator for a some time when they are really dead. The charger will put 90 amps into the batteries when they are dead on full blast.

Moral is Add more batteries than you think you will need.

EDIT: and I removed my AC.... no use on the batteries.

 

[dwh]

And don't forget the espresso machine! And the Aerolatte machine! We gotta have standards.

Wait...what?

I thought we agreed on the Moka Pot.

Did I miss a memo?

 

[DiploStrat]

I use the Bialetti Moka pot (http://www.bialettishop.com/KittyMain.htm) ; that's why I have to use the Aerolatte to froth the milk. (http://www.aerolatte.com/products/heat-froth/aerolatte-compact/)

I would keep using the Dolce Gusto machine except that Nestlé don't sell the cartridges except by mail and I won't give up my entire roof rack to carry coffee for a long trip. Pity because the Dolce Gusto produces decent (but not great) coffee and uses powdered milk cartridges which save on carrying real milk. While it knocks back about 75A when heating, it only takes 30 seconds to come up to temperature.

Now, should I carry a grinder? Nah! That's over the top.

 

[Projectm880]

And when you say, "small fridge" I do hope you aren't talking about a 120v bar fridge. Those draw a lot of power for their size.

By small fridge I meant one similar to the 12v ARB Cooler/Fridge. Just something small to keep food items in.

And don't forget the espresso machine! And the Aerolatte machine! We gotta have standards.

My Buddy uses a 12V Coffee Maker that he plugs in to his cigarette lighter on his 1979 Dodge Power Wagon. We call it the 300HP Coffee Machine.

There is a grim irony; a small camper needs less heat and A/C, but has less room for solar and batteries. All of these things tend to expand, in space and weight, very quickly. About those numbers:

-- In cool weather with the refrigerator and heat on, I guesstimate about 5A per hour of drain, with increases for bursts of high fan, etc. This includes random draws like the water pump, composting toilet, etc. The actual number is probably a bit lower than what I am quoting, but I prefer to assume the worst. Call it 75-100Ah.

-- Induction stove or microwave will pull between 150 and 180A when running full on. How long do they run? What's for dinner?

-- 6k BTU A/C through an inverter pulls 50-60A with the compressor running. (200+A starting surge) Draws between 10 and 15A when on fan only. How long does the compressor run? What is the temperature, how big is your camper, and how well is it insulated?

-- 500w of solar can give around 30A of power in good sun. (Think American southwest.) Will easily do 20A in the winter. So the question is, how many hours do you have and what is the angle of the sun?

Depending on the menu and the weather, I find that this works out to 125-150A between sunset (batteries full) and engine start the next morning, after fixing breakfast. Using the classic 50% rule, this would demand:

-- Minimum battery bank of 300Ah.

-- Minimum alternator capable of 100A, running for at least three hours.

-- Decent solar for three to six hours.

All of this is per day and ignores air conditioning. Why? I simply never got hot enough to run the air conditioning last year. Stay tuned for this year.

My goal was three days without any sunlight or engine run; I got two comfortably, three if I am willing to exceed the 50% rule. Which, according to Lifeline, you can do, but ONLY if the batteries are immediately placed on charge. You cannot leave them discharged for an extended period.

So, do you need a genset? I don't have one and have never regretted it, but I am going to add a diesel stove. Similarly, I have never heard of an Earthroamer owner selling one because it does not have a genset.

If you do go with a genset, I would look at the Yamaha or Honda variable speed models; they are much, much quieter.

Thank you for breaking down your usage numbers. Very helpful.

All my cooking need will be on Camp Fire or Coleman Stove, So I'm not looking to run any electrical cooking items.

Ac would only be run at night during sleeping hours. But since I'm in the process of building/obtaining a camper setup, i can;t give any info on Insulation or SQFT.

I see now that based on everyone's information, a Solar setup for basic systems and a small Generator for AC at night would seem to be the best setup. Though I may be able to run a very small AC with a lot of batteries if I enclosed the Sleeping area.

I was given a generator that would work, but its large heavy and pretty noisy http://www.titanindustrial.net/8500m.php

 

[dwh]

That generator is a beast! You could run a 40' diesel pusher motorhome with two roof-top a/c units off that thing.