Yeah, the good ole patriot does not get respect. ha ha. As for the roof rack, I have been going through the same issues. I am going to use sport rack cross bars with the rhinorack mesh platform. low profile, strong, and inexpensive. DO the H&Rs give lift or drop? Also, look into moog. They have springs for all kinds of things....you can probably source a lift set from them. They have lift springs for the patriot.
Ford Escape e/x Build
- Thread starter OuterLimits
- Start date
Ok, Grab them. I used H&R a lot back in my import tuning days. They rode great, did the job perfect and were quality parts. I saw on another post here somewhere, someone had H&Rs on their escape, had it parked in a garage next to their wifes new rubi and the escape has the same underbody clearance as the stock jeep. very interesting to see. They seem like a winner. add the Monroe struts to that package and it seems like a nice complete setup! Keep it goin!!!! I was debating rocky road or stu's. Still have not decided yet. Stu's will net me a little over an inch of lift where as the Rocky system is more complete and gets me 2"
ihatemybike
Explorer
Rocky Road Outfitters still have the OME Escape lift on their website.
http://www.rocky-road.com/ford-escape-lift-kit.html
Another option to look into is Hypercoils. They have a vast selection of springs available, maybe something is available already that would add a bit of lift.
http://www.hypercoils.com/
justbecause
perpetually lost
:lurk:
OuterLimits
I control the horizontal and the vertical
My apologies for the lack of replies. Last Saturday I was trying to post my latest installment to the build thread. I hit "post" and was rewarded with an error message.
I type it back up again, upload the pictures again, hit "post" again, and poof! Nothing!!!
(Deleted superfluous techno-babble)
Till this gets sorted out I can't read, reply, or post anything from home. My build thread will be going on temporary hiatus.
Thanks for all the support, encouragement, and input. Cheers
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justbecause
perpetually lost
I had a very similar experience just today. I had to restart the browser.... apparently less involved than you issue but maybe portal is doing a server update?
OuterLimits
I control the horizontal and the vertical
After a 5 day techno-prison without ExPo Forums, many of you thought it was over...
LET'S DO IT!!! BACK TO THE BUILD!!!!!!
LET'S DO IT!!! BACK TO THE BUILD!!!!!!
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OuterLimits
I control the horizontal and the vertical
Getting Fed UP!!!
Sorry folks. I keep getting server errors when I post more than a paragraph or two.
I post over and over again, just to get the "ERROR" message and lose the post.
The Build thread is back on hiatus till this gets sorted out.
Stay thirsty for the build my friends!
Sorry folks. I keep getting server errors when I post more than a paragraph or two.
I post over and over again, just to get the "ERROR" message and lose the post.
The Build thread is back on hiatus till this gets sorted out.
Stay thirsty for the build my friends!
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OuterLimits
I control the horizontal and the vertical
Roof Rack Phase II
The Escape is blessed with a proper set of roof rails. No need to rip out the roof liner to modify the roof rack system. Everything is right up top with easy access. The existing crossbars are designed to slide right off the end. Nice!
Now how to get the Mule attached to my roof rails? Being such a standard old skool type roof rail, I figured somebody had a bracket that would slide on the rails and bolt up to the mule. After many hours of black-belt level Google-****, I gave up. This will require a custom solution.
I spent several weeks thinking about and sketching mounting solutions. I came up with at least 6 different, inelegant, and otherwise kludgy solutions. If you want to know "How not to attach a roof rack to an Escape", I'm your man. I just kind of set it all aside for a while.
While pouring over build threads, looking for miscellaneous inspiration, I stumbled on to the answer. There was a gent that was mounting brackets to the bed of his pickup truck for supporting a platform for drawers and sleeping. He used a piece of 1.5" x 1.5" square tubing as the base. The ends were cut at a 45 degree angle and a hole drilled on both ends to accept a bolt. It was simple! It was elegant! It was genius! It was the solution I was looking for!
Now just cut square tubing to shape and weld a tab to this tubing to create a mounting bracket. Next weld a tab to the mule, drill some holes in the tabs, and bolt the whole enchilada together!!! Easy Peasey!
All I needed now was some T-bolts to slide into my roof rails. More Google-**** searching for the right T-bolts. More disappointment. At appears this will also need to be custom. I went to Lowe's and grabbed a selection of stainless bolts and washers to see if I could fab up an anchor for the bracket. I came up with a couple of bolt washer combos that would slide on the roof rails, but would endlessly spin when trying to secure or loosen a nut from the end.
Then I had an epiphany! I could weld an over-sized washer to the bolt to make them "one". I would then file two flat sides on the washer to allow it to slide on the rails, but not turn when torqueing down a nut. Just one more problem, I am sans welding equipment, and wouldn't know what to do with it if I had it.
As bizarre fate would have it, While pondering my problem, I hear this faint, yet distinct buzzing sound from a neighbor's garage. It was the sweet, sweet sound of a MIG welder! Honestly, it could have been a TIG welder. How the hell would I know? I just told you I don't know how to weld. I do know it involved electricity, smoke, buzzing, zapping, and the joining of metals.
Seems my neighbor was restoring an old, beat up mustang, for a second life as a track car. Seizing the opportunity, I came back with a 6 Pack of beer, a handful of bolts and washers, and a needy look. It worked!
A short while later I was back in my garage with 10 new, (gotta have spares) soon to be, custom T-bolts. Two flats were filed on the washers till they were narrow enough to slide in the roof rails. This was going too easy. Something's gotta give. It seems with the added thickness of the washer, the head of the bolt is now too tall to slide in the roof rails. D'oh!
Using a file, and copious amounts of elbow grease, the head of the bolts were carefully flattened. The bolts now fit perfectly in the rails.
While I was sorting out other details, I thought I would go ahead and have somebody weld the new mounting tabs to my Mule. It seems most welders really don't want to bother with small jobs like this. After many phone calls and visits to shops, I found a one man operation that was willing to take on this task.
The rack was placed on a flat table and 4 tabs carefully placed under the rack. After a bit of welding wizardry, the rack was done.
Next, I sourced the proper size square tubing for the rail mount. Using a chop saw with a cutoff wheel, I cut 4 pieces down to length, and then cut 45 degree angles on the ends. I then drilled a hole on each end for the T-bolt. Next, I cut 4 tabs to be welded to the tubing. This assembly would be my roof mounting bracket.
Spoiler Alert! Showing pics of finalized mounts, as I did not take any pics of the raw steel before welding.
I went back to my newly found one-man welding shop, only to discover it was now a no-man welding shop. In one week the guy retired and shut down his shop!!! WTH???
I get to start over on my welding quest. Arrrrggghhh! After many rejections I found a fabricator that would weld the tabs on the tubing. I really think they took the job more out of curiosity and pity than anything.
They get the tabs welded on the tubing. I take them home and slide 8 T-bolts in the rails. 4 brackets get dropped on the T-bolts. Cinch the brackets down with Nylock nuts. Now its time to set the Mule with its tabs on the matching roof mount tabs.
After stepping back, I realized the error in my ways. The tabs on the mule are level. The tabs on the roof mounts are angled, matching the side to side curve of the roof line. Bottom line: The angle of the rack tabs did not come close to matching the angle of the roof mount tabs. No way to bolt them together.
I made the mistake of starting from the rack, then working down to the roof. The smart way is to start at the roof, and work upward to the rack. I would now have to cut 4 tabs off the Mule, without cutting into or weakening the rack tubing.
It started with a Dremel tool and a thin cutoff wheel. It just wasn't happening. The cutoff wheel wasn't holding up, and it was difficult getting the right angle. Next up was a full sized drill and cutoff wheel. The big wheel was a bit unwieldy for the precision needed. After a trip to the big box store I discovered the Dremel 90 degree adapter and reinforced cutoff wheels. This did the trick. The going was painfully slow, but effective. After the old weld mess was cleaned up I took a trip back down to the welder.
I had the roof mounts installed. We put the Mule on top of the roof mounts, then slid the mule tabs between the two. This ensures the rack tabs are at the same angle as the roof mount tabs. He tacked the tabs in place, then removed the rack and finished the rack/tab welding.
After arriving home, I put the rack back up top, lined up the tabs, and drilled the holes to bolt the tabs together. I finally had a sturdy rack on my roof!
Time for the powder coating!
(The attentive among you will have noticed the general dearth of appropriate photos in phase II of the roof rack build. This is due primarily to me reaching for profanity more often than my camera. I will strive to do better.)
The Escape is blessed with a proper set of roof rails. No need to rip out the roof liner to modify the roof rack system. Everything is right up top with easy access. The existing crossbars are designed to slide right off the end. Nice!
Now how to get the Mule attached to my roof rails? Being such a standard old skool type roof rail, I figured somebody had a bracket that would slide on the rails and bolt up to the mule. After many hours of black-belt level Google-****, I gave up. This will require a custom solution.
I spent several weeks thinking about and sketching mounting solutions. I came up with at least 6 different, inelegant, and otherwise kludgy solutions. If you want to know "How not to attach a roof rack to an Escape", I'm your man. I just kind of set it all aside for a while.
While pouring over build threads, looking for miscellaneous inspiration, I stumbled on to the answer. There was a gent that was mounting brackets to the bed of his pickup truck for supporting a platform for drawers and sleeping. He used a piece of 1.5" x 1.5" square tubing as the base. The ends were cut at a 45 degree angle and a hole drilled on both ends to accept a bolt. It was simple! It was elegant! It was genius! It was the solution I was looking for!
Now just cut square tubing to shape and weld a tab to this tubing to create a mounting bracket. Next weld a tab to the mule, drill some holes in the tabs, and bolt the whole enchilada together!!! Easy Peasey!
All I needed now was some T-bolts to slide into my roof rails. More Google-**** searching for the right T-bolts. More disappointment. At appears this will also need to be custom. I went to Lowe's and grabbed a selection of stainless bolts and washers to see if I could fab up an anchor for the bracket. I came up with a couple of bolt washer combos that would slide on the roof rails, but would endlessly spin when trying to secure or loosen a nut from the end.
Then I had an epiphany! I could weld an over-sized washer to the bolt to make them "one". I would then file two flat sides on the washer to allow it to slide on the rails, but not turn when torqueing down a nut. Just one more problem, I am sans welding equipment, and wouldn't know what to do with it if I had it.
As bizarre fate would have it, While pondering my problem, I hear this faint, yet distinct buzzing sound from a neighbor's garage. It was the sweet, sweet sound of a MIG welder! Honestly, it could have been a TIG welder. How the hell would I know? I just told you I don't know how to weld. I do know it involved electricity, smoke, buzzing, zapping, and the joining of metals.
Seems my neighbor was restoring an old, beat up mustang, for a second life as a track car. Seizing the opportunity, I came back with a 6 Pack of beer, a handful of bolts and washers, and a needy look. It worked!
A short while later I was back in my garage with 10 new, (gotta have spares) soon to be, custom T-bolts. Two flats were filed on the washers till they were narrow enough to slide in the roof rails. This was going too easy. Something's gotta give. It seems with the added thickness of the washer, the head of the bolt is now too tall to slide in the roof rails. D'oh!
Using a file, and copious amounts of elbow grease, the head of the bolts were carefully flattened. The bolts now fit perfectly in the rails.
While I was sorting out other details, I thought I would go ahead and have somebody weld the new mounting tabs to my Mule. It seems most welders really don't want to bother with small jobs like this. After many phone calls and visits to shops, I found a one man operation that was willing to take on this task.
The rack was placed on a flat table and 4 tabs carefully placed under the rack. After a bit of welding wizardry, the rack was done.
Next, I sourced the proper size square tubing for the rail mount. Using a chop saw with a cutoff wheel, I cut 4 pieces down to length, and then cut 45 degree angles on the ends. I then drilled a hole on each end for the T-bolt. Next, I cut 4 tabs to be welded to the tubing. This assembly would be my roof mounting bracket.
Spoiler Alert! Showing pics of finalized mounts, as I did not take any pics of the raw steel before welding.
I went back to my newly found one-man welding shop, only to discover it was now a no-man welding shop. In one week the guy retired and shut down his shop!!! WTH???
I get to start over on my welding quest. Arrrrggghhh! After many rejections I found a fabricator that would weld the tabs on the tubing. I really think they took the job more out of curiosity and pity than anything.
They get the tabs welded on the tubing. I take them home and slide 8 T-bolts in the rails. 4 brackets get dropped on the T-bolts. Cinch the brackets down with Nylock nuts. Now its time to set the Mule with its tabs on the matching roof mount tabs.
After stepping back, I realized the error in my ways. The tabs on the mule are level. The tabs on the roof mounts are angled, matching the side to side curve of the roof line. Bottom line: The angle of the rack tabs did not come close to matching the angle of the roof mount tabs. No way to bolt them together.
I made the mistake of starting from the rack, then working down to the roof. The smart way is to start at the roof, and work upward to the rack. I would now have to cut 4 tabs off the Mule, without cutting into or weakening the rack tubing.
It started with a Dremel tool and a thin cutoff wheel. It just wasn't happening. The cutoff wheel wasn't holding up, and it was difficult getting the right angle. Next up was a full sized drill and cutoff wheel. The big wheel was a bit unwieldy for the precision needed. After a trip to the big box store I discovered the Dremel 90 degree adapter and reinforced cutoff wheels. This did the trick. The going was painfully slow, but effective. After the old weld mess was cleaned up I took a trip back down to the welder.
I had the roof mounts installed. We put the Mule on top of the roof mounts, then slid the mule tabs between the two. This ensures the rack tabs are at the same angle as the roof mount tabs. He tacked the tabs in place, then removed the rack and finished the rack/tab welding.
After arriving home, I put the rack back up top, lined up the tabs, and drilled the holes to bolt the tabs together. I finally had a sturdy rack on my roof!
Time for the powder coating!
(The attentive among you will have noticed the general dearth of appropriate photos in phase II of the roof rack build. This is due primarily to me reaching for profanity more often than my camera. I will strive to do better.)
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jpat30
Adventurer
Glad you are back among us.......I always look forward to your posts. The bracket design looks great, will be nice to see the whole rack mounted up on your rig. They say necessity is the mother of all invention......its also a great source of frustration and profanity:sombrero: Sorry to hear about your problems with the IT Nazis as well....hope that finds resolution soon. Keep on Keeping on and have a great weekend!
OuterLimits
I control the horizontal and the vertical
JPAT30,
Thank you for the compliment and encouragement.
(Deleted superfluous techno-babble)
The roof rack has been frustrating, yet ultimately satisfying. Once I got things sorted out, I was very pleased with the final result.
It is rock solid (unlike the Ford/Baja rack OEM solution). It is simple, and it will serve my needs nicely.
I plan on getting the roof rack build finale posted up soon.
Cheers
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OuterLimits
I control the horizontal and the vertical
ROOF RACK BUILD Phase III Powder Coating!
I always like to support local small businesses. So I went back to the same powder coater that did my wheels. The leaky tire fiasco was probably just an unfortunate fluke. Also, going back to the same shop would hopefully ensure getting the same color/texture on my rack, to match my wheels.
I asked powder coater guy if there would be any issues with getting the powder coat into the square tubes used for my roof mounts. "Shouldn't be an issue". I asked if there would be any problem with getting the powder coat back into the crevices between the welded tabs and the rack tubing. "Shouldn't be a problem", (Where have I heard this before?). OK, let's do this.
I left my rack and mounts there to get colorized. A week or so later I picked it all up and brought it home for assembly and mounting. It was dark when I picked it up. I didn't see the sloppy work on the back side. There were patches of gloppy coating here and there. It looked pretty poor.
We had a light rain that night and the morning showed rust coming out of the square mount tubes, as well as the crevices between tabs and tubes. Seems it WAS an issue and a problem getting the powder in where it was needed.
The coating was thick and gloppy in one side, and thin and non-functional on the other. There were numerous little pin-hole rust spots. The pin-hole rust showed up in the sun, but not under florescent lighting. I figured I had better dumb it down for this guy. I took a red tipped sharpie and put a dot over the pin-hole rust. No way he can miss that.
I returned the whole setup to the powder coater guy. He's no longer very polite or friendly. He couldn't dispute the lousy QC, but wasn't at all pleased to have to re-do his lousy work.
In my working world, if a customer had a problem with the quality of my work, that customer went right to the top of my priority list. They were first in line, allowing me to quickly deal with any issue. A happy customer is a return customer.
Powder coater guy had the opposite philosophy. I went to the back of the line, behind jobs that were "paying". He did not answer his phone nor return messages. He missed deadline after deadline. I would drive down to the shop, only to be delayed and blown off again and again. This guy was turning into a real doooosch.
I finally picked up the roof rack re-do. The glop was gone, but you could still see every red sharpie dot on the other side. I think he blasted and re-sprayed the gloppy side, but didn't touch the thin side. I told him to take it back and do it right. He insisted he "did it right". I was persistent and he relented. He was really pissed. I was really pissed. Back in it went.
Same story. Back of the line. Missed deadlines. No phone answer. No message reply.
When I finally came back to pick up the rack he wouldn't even speak to me. He grabbed the rack, loaded into my Escape and stomped off like a child having a tantrum.
I got the rack back home and mounted. It looked great!!! Light rain that night. The next morning I had rust streaks coming out of the mount tubes again and rust in all the crevices between the tab welds and rack tubing, again. There were also tiny rust spots in the small crevices on the rack welds. This clown was trying to save a buck by laying it on thin (and improperly), yet was willing to re-do the whole job 3 times, and still did it wrong!
I have talked to two other people that had work done by this hack and had to have it re-done. Lesson learned. Need to find a new powder coater for future projects.
I still have to deal with all the problems caused by this guy's ineptness. I picked up a can of rustoleum primer and a can of rustoleum gray paint. I used a micro paint roller, like a massive q-Tip to get primer and paint into the full length of the square mount tubes. I drizzled paint and primer down into the weld crevices. I then put little dots of paint over the pin hole rust on the welds. So far, with a few more rust pin-holes, it is finally waterproof!!!
The rack is done!!! I apologize for the utter and complete lack of photos during the process of phase three of the build. My camera was put away and profanity was again my tool of choice.
Now I bring to you, after much grief and annoyance, the Custom "Baja Escape" Rack!!!!
I always like to support local small businesses. So I went back to the same powder coater that did my wheels. The leaky tire fiasco was probably just an unfortunate fluke. Also, going back to the same shop would hopefully ensure getting the same color/texture on my rack, to match my wheels.
I asked powder coater guy if there would be any issues with getting the powder coat into the square tubes used for my roof mounts. "Shouldn't be an issue". I asked if there would be any problem with getting the powder coat back into the crevices between the welded tabs and the rack tubing. "Shouldn't be a problem", (Where have I heard this before?). OK, let's do this.
I left my rack and mounts there to get colorized. A week or so later I picked it all up and brought it home for assembly and mounting. It was dark when I picked it up. I didn't see the sloppy work on the back side. There were patches of gloppy coating here and there. It looked pretty poor.
We had a light rain that night and the morning showed rust coming out of the square mount tubes, as well as the crevices between tabs and tubes. Seems it WAS an issue and a problem getting the powder in where it was needed.
The coating was thick and gloppy in one side, and thin and non-functional on the other. There were numerous little pin-hole rust spots. The pin-hole rust showed up in the sun, but not under florescent lighting. I figured I had better dumb it down for this guy. I took a red tipped sharpie and put a dot over the pin-hole rust. No way he can miss that.
I returned the whole setup to the powder coater guy. He's no longer very polite or friendly. He couldn't dispute the lousy QC, but wasn't at all pleased to have to re-do his lousy work.
In my working world, if a customer had a problem with the quality of my work, that customer went right to the top of my priority list. They were first in line, allowing me to quickly deal with any issue. A happy customer is a return customer.
Powder coater guy had the opposite philosophy. I went to the back of the line, behind jobs that were "paying". He did not answer his phone nor return messages. He missed deadline after deadline. I would drive down to the shop, only to be delayed and blown off again and again. This guy was turning into a real doooosch.
I finally picked up the roof rack re-do. The glop was gone, but you could still see every red sharpie dot on the other side. I think he blasted and re-sprayed the gloppy side, but didn't touch the thin side. I told him to take it back and do it right. He insisted he "did it right". I was persistent and he relented. He was really pissed. I was really pissed. Back in it went.
Same story. Back of the line. Missed deadlines. No phone answer. No message reply.
When I finally came back to pick up the rack he wouldn't even speak to me. He grabbed the rack, loaded into my Escape and stomped off like a child having a tantrum.
I got the rack back home and mounted. It looked great!!! Light rain that night. The next morning I had rust streaks coming out of the mount tubes again and rust in all the crevices between the tab welds and rack tubing, again. There were also tiny rust spots in the small crevices on the rack welds. This clown was trying to save a buck by laying it on thin (and improperly), yet was willing to re-do the whole job 3 times, and still did it wrong!
I have talked to two other people that had work done by this hack and had to have it re-done. Lesson learned. Need to find a new powder coater for future projects.
I still have to deal with all the problems caused by this guy's ineptness. I picked up a can of rustoleum primer and a can of rustoleum gray paint. I used a micro paint roller, like a massive q-Tip to get primer and paint into the full length of the square mount tubes. I drizzled paint and primer down into the weld crevices. I then put little dots of paint over the pin hole rust on the welds. So far, with a few more rust pin-holes, it is finally waterproof!!!
The rack is done!!! I apologize for the utter and complete lack of photos during the process of phase three of the build. My camera was put away and profanity was again my tool of choice.
Now I bring to you, after much grief and annoyance, the Custom "Baja Escape" Rack!!!!
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