Subaru Forester & Outback - Educate Me

[pint]

Looking for some help. I'm thinking about jumping into the Subie world, but I'm a total newb. I have been a Land Cruiser guy for years and am looking at an alternative as a DD as well as light expedition vehicle. Here are my initial questions:

Can I buy, build and bring all PM up to speed on an Outback wagon or Forester for a total investment of $6-$7K including the vehicle? No major mods, just tires, rock sliders, maybe a Supero type lift, etc.

What kind of mpg's are people getting out of the stock 4 cylinder?

What kind of life expectancy does this engine have? I'm used to Land Cruisers that go 300K with proper maintenance.

Any costly problem areas, certain years to watch out for, etc...engine, tranny, electronics, etc?

Any major reason for one model over the other (Forester versus Outback) or mainly personal preference?

Are there any good forums like this that focus on these models?

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[98roamer]

I've watched the subi market for awhile and I've gone between the outback and forester. I would really like the answers also- subscribing.

 

[Powdaze]

pint,

These are the 2 main sites relevant to both the Outback and Forester respectively. Lots of information on both. You should be able to find the answers to any questions you may have.

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/
http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/

Some quick answers to your specific questions...

Price?: I don't see why not depending on the year of the vehicle and what exactly you want to do with it. I know people that have built up decent vehicles for under $10K.

MPG?: Expect high 20s from the 2.5i NA depending how you drive. I'm averaging 21mpg in the 3.0R with 22K mixed on the odo and a pretty heavy foot.

Life expectancy?: These things will go on forever if well cared for. There are plenty of Outback's with 300K+ on them still running fine. Especially the 2.5i or 3.0R NAs. The 2.5XT is a great engine but you probably want to stay away from the turbo if life expectancy is a factor for you. Reliability and dependability are two of Subaru's strengths overall.

Problems?: Both are very reliable but earlier Outbacks (pre-02 I think) had a serious head gasket issue that dogged many units. I believe this issue was completely resolved after MY02. But search for "head gasket" on the Outback forum and you will have plenty of reading. Don't let it scare you off though, it's still a vast minority.

Which one?: Completely personal. Both have their pros and cons. But ultimately, both are exceptional vehicles.

Good luck with your research. Either one will serve you well.

 

[Maddmatt]

I've got an '01 Outback here's some random thoughts based on nearly 8 years of ownership.

Only car I've ever owned that I like more now that when I bought it (in '01).

I have heard that the 2000 and older versions have headgasket problems - has not been a problem for me with an '01.

At 6', 200lbs I find the driver seat very comfortable. I find the passenger seat very uncomfortable. Luckily I drive most of the time.

As you might expect, they are amazing snow vehicles.

I've only got two complaints:
1) Wind Noise. They create some serious wind noise at highway speeds. There's a knob on my dashboard that fixes this problem (It's labeled Volume) but it bothers some people.
2) I personally believe that the front brakes are a bit undersized. I've had to have them turned a few times already, with only 90k on the car. IMO, they wear out too quick (and I'm not an aggressive driver). Will probably replace them with some heavier duty slotted units at my next service.

MPG: At 65mph with 4 people and a Thule box on the roof I get 27-28mpg. At 75 with the same load it drops to 25. Mileage is not great around town, in the winter (when our pump gas has more ethanol in it) my around town mileage drops to 20 or so.

Check out Superu on this forum to see what they can do - he's got the best list of links too.

All in all I've been very happy with my Outback. I looked at the same MY Forester's, and felt like the Outback was little more refined and car-like, which is what I was going for with this car, but that was in 2001 - I'm sure they've both changed.
-Matt

 

[Streakerfreak]

Check out Superu on this forum to see what they can do - he's got the best list of links too.

Yes, very smart idea. I have seen the rig in person and its out of this world.

Here is a little snapshot I took when we went out for a little bit.

 

[Elliot Press]

Personally I say get an earlier model Forester...then again, I'm a Forester owner.
The Forester outperforms the Outback very easily off road due to it's superior approach and departure angles and shorter wheel base. But that's about the differences end. The Outback is still a very good car to own, but if you're planning on doing technical rock crawling etc then the Forester is the way to go.

Both vehicles are very good on fuel, I'm getting easily over 30mpg in my 2001 2L Forester (non turbo). The reason I suggested getting an earlier model (anywhere before 2008 model I'd say) is due to after market parts. As far as I'm aware there are no good suspension or body lift options available for the latest generation Forester.

Reliability. These cars are VERY reliable, especially for a petrol motor. They just keep going and going, and seeing as they share the same make up as the VERY popular WRX, the availability of parts is brilliant. The parts across almost the entire Subaru range are interchangeable which means when you break something (if that ever happens) it is very easy to get a spare.

PS: They are so lovely to drive too

I suggest if you want to really learn about the Subarus then join up offroadsubarus.com

 

[pint]

Great info everyone. Keep it coming! What about the Impreza Outback Sport? Anything really good or bad about that one. They seem kinda cool, and are a bit smaller.

I drive about 25,000 miles per year on the road for my business, and plan to do a number of off road adventures. MPG's and comfort are priorities.

 

[EMrider]

I've got an 09 outback limited 2.5l with 6k miles. Wonderful car overall.

Comfortable to drive, handles well and gets good MPG of about 23mpg in combined city/hwy driving. About 27-28mpg on the highway at 65mph.

But IMHO this isn't a car I'd consider for serious off-road use in stock condition. It is excellent in snow, but I consider that a different story. I'm pretty sure that the power delivery is 90% front and 10% rear on the non-turbo 2.5l motors. My tranny is a 4 speed auto and first is a bit tall.

An outback or forester with a 3" suspension lift, 50/50 power distribution, locking rear differential and a dual range manual transfer case would be off-road prefection.

R

 

[pint]

Are Subaru's easy to work on in general? I'm not going to rebuild an engine, but do like to change my own fluids, brake pads, spark plugs, belts, etc. Are there good service/repair manuals? Toyota makes great set for my 2000 Land Cruiser. They are pricey ($200), but you could repair/rebuild anything on the vehicle with them! I've saved thousands!

 

[Elliot Press]

Subarus are so easy to work on it's not funny :wings:
The engines are neat and easy to understand and there are great manual out there. I've got a VERY VERY comprehensive service manual for the Forester in my computer. I got it free online, via bit torrent. Not quite sure if it was legal, but ohwell, I do have a printed version as well that is legit. Should only cost 50 dollars or so.

Today in fact, I needed to remove the starter motor because it was having a few problems. Just had to remove the airbox (two bolts) remove the support that holds the airbox (two bolts) and then unbolt the starter motor (two bolts). Piece of cake. Never done it before and it took me about 10-15 minutes and that was while drinking a beer.

As for general servicing, it couldn't be easier. The fuel filter is easy to get to and remove, the fuel filter is one clip that holds it in plus the two in and out hoses. It's a 5 minute job, max. Draining the sump is easy and the radiator is VERY easy as there is a little tap, so you don't need to remove the radiator hose. The only thing that is slightly tricky (barely) is the gearbox. Draining is fine, but the refill is in an awkward spot so you need to use a funnel and some hose. Other than that, it couldn't be more simple.

Any more questions?

 

[Powdaze]

Personally I say get an earlier model Forester...then again, I'm a Forester owner.
The Forester outperforms the Outback very easily off road due to it's superior approach and departure angles and shorter wheel base. But that's about the differences end. The Outback is still a very good car to own, but if you're planning on doing technical rock crawling etc then the Forester is the way to go.

Agree 100%. However, if you are spending more time on road then go for an Outback for superior driving dynamics and refinement. I find the latest gen OB OEM suspension a little soft though and I would upgrade to Rallitek springs asap, especially if you are going to be adding any significant weight to the chassis or towing something. Take a look at Superu's OB for an aftermarket lift option which is even better of course for more aggressive trail adventures. You may be a little surprised how far a stock Forester or OB will get you anyways. I've seen plenty on top of Mosquito Pass which is a low-blue rated trail. And as you probably already know they are legendary snow vehicles.

 

[pint]

I'm looking at something a little older for probably $5-$7K purchase price. Probably drive it until next February when my oldest turns 16 and turn it over to him. Then, if I have been bitten by the bug, buy something newer and go all out!

 

[Powdaze]

I'm looking at something a little older for probably $5-$7K purchase price. Probably drive it until next February when my oldest turns 16 and turn it over to him. Then, if I have been bitten by the bug, buy something newer and go all out!

My friend just purchased a 01 Outback 2.5i Limited for $7K. It was a one owner, pre-inspected, FSH car in very good condition with 80,000 on the odo. It came with the heated leather, dual sunroofs, power seats, alloys, 6cd etc. There is hardly a mark on it and it drives great. The 2nd gen is my favorite exterior design too.

You should be able to find a really nice example quite comfortably around that price range.

 

[Elliot Press]

The only issues I have with the Outback is it's severe lack of offroad ability compared to the Forester. I've seen plenty of Outbacks that have been seriously decked out but they still don't perform all that well on anything highly technical.

The major plus, however, is that the Outback does have more storage. Apart from that, I can't see any reason to chose the Outback over the Forester if you're planning on going offroad.

 

[EMrider]

The only issues I have with the Outback is it's severe lack of offroad ability compared to the Forester. I've seen plenty of Outbacks that have been seriously decked out but they still don't perform all that well on anything highly technical.

The major plus, however, is that the Outback does have more storage. Apart from that, I can't see any reason to chose the Outback over the Forester if you're planning on going offroad.

Just curious, aside from the shorter wheelbase and better departure angles, is there any other major difference between the OB and the Forester? Suspension, drivetrain, tranny, etc??