Raptors having frame issues

[Larry]

Meh, it is a matter of time before some idiot kills themselves in a Raptor being foolish and sues Ford blue resulting in the end of Raptor production. I am surprised Ford’s lawyers let the Dearborn fools build such a production truck in the first place. The US is not a friendly place to do business for auto manufactures. Too many lawyers and too many people that refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. The Raptor is the answer to the questions nobody was really asking anyway. The Power Wagon drives a much better business case for a production off-roader with much less potential legal risks.

 

[ExpoMike]

too many people that refuse to take responsibility for their own actions.

X one billion!

That is the key to so many problems in this world. :snorkel:

 

[tcdent]

I think it's great that Ford is showing an interest in educating the community. So many of these owners have to be clueless about real off road safety; some of them admitted hitting triple digit speeds with no roll cage.

Thinking your truck is indestructible at the same time is a recipe for some serious injuries. Most desert race teams have a hard time keeping their purpose-built vehicles running through a single event. Not only are they designed specifically for it, but most get torn down, inspected and repaired before each outting.

Expecting a (basically) stock vehicle to handle this terrain without any failures is ridiculous.

 

[Buliwyf]

Meh, it is a matter of time before some idiot kills themselves in a Raptor being foolish and sues Ford blue resulting in the end of Raptor production. I am surprised Ford's lawyers let the Dearborn fools build such a production truck in the first place. The US is not a friendly place to do business for auto manufactures. Too many lawyers and too many people that refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. The Raptor is the answer to the questions nobody was really asking anyway. The Power Wagon drives a much better business case for a production off-roader with much less potential legal risks.

There is a huge market for the Raptor...........

It's a Ford Lightning that isn't gay. LOLz.

 

[thebrassnuckles]

Then they would have broken tie rods at 125 MPH!:Wow1:

the tie rod problem with dodges is on 2500 and 3500 models, the raptor equivalent would be a 1500...

go balls to the wall. g2g.:smiley_drive:

 

[lllateralus]

My tie rod comment wasn't aimed at Dodges, although I guess they break tie rods too.
It was aimed at all the GM trucks (silverados, H2s...) with weak tie rods that buckle during off road use. (youtube it...)

Id rather have a frame bend at 125 mph off road than any tie rod break. One is deadly, the other (in the Raptors case) is very much not.. especially considering they do not even notice when it happens.

 

[Hilldweller]

I read nothing in the ford disclaimer about ensuring all kittens nearby be flame-retardant.

Kitten safety is always stressed in both Jeep and Power Wagon events. I think it prudent that Ford SVT jump on that bandwagon.

The crux of the interview seemed to be an obligation toward safety instruction. Learn the truck, drive it safely.
Whoda thunkit?

 

[Buliwyf]

My tie rod comment wasn't aimed at Dodges, although I guess they break tie rods too.
It was aimed at all the GM trucks (silverados, H2s...) with weak tie rods that buckle during off road use. (youtube it...)

Id rather have a frame bend at 125 mph off road than any tie rod break. One is deadly, the other (in the Raptors case) is very much not.. especially considering they do not even notice when it happens.

Any truck with IFS is going to work the tie rods hard. When the front suspension arm moves, a geometry called bump steer will cause the wheel to toe in or usually out a little bit.

You can watch a Ford Ranger with fatter tires offroad toeing out every time it hits a bump. On sand dunes people allways point at Rangers and Exploreres and exclaim that "There's something broken on the front of that truck!" It's that easy to spot with the fatter tires exagerating the effect as they are easier to see and closer to the fenders. Poorly designed IFS crammed into tight little trucks will have more bumpsteer than something that has the room for a better IFS design like a larger GMC 2500.

A hard hit can move the suspension at lightning speed, causeing a sharp hard tug on the tie rod. Very easy to break. You'll notice that race trucks use huge Hiem joints, as big as what we'd use on suspension arms, for tie rod ends.

Live axle trucks don't have this problem, because the suspension deosn't move serperately of the tie rods. They're all bolted to the same wagon axle, all moving together. Dodges problems with live axle truck tie rods is from stinky small parts QC. A Ford with nearly the same axle design has hardly a problem.

Generally, when a tie rod snaps, the wheel will flop out all the way and drag, your remaining good wheel will still be able to steer the truck as that broken wheel is flopped out and skidding/sliding with little grip, just a flurry of smoke. Scary and potentially worse than a bent frame. But still may not wreck a long wheel base truck. Ford and GM have actually tested such failures and adjusted thier designs. Off road is a different story, falling into a rut or soft spot while dragging that tire at speed could be very, very bad.

Happens all the time in F1 car wrecks. The loose tire toes out and drags.

No kittens were harmed in the formation of this post.

 

[lllateralus]

Any truck with IFS is going to work the tie rods hard. When the front suspension arm moves, a geometry called bump steer will cause the wheel to toe in or usually out a little bit.

You can watch a Ford Ranger with fatter tires offroad toeing out every time it hits a bump. On sand dunes people allways point at Rangers and Exploreres and exclaim that "There's something broken on the front of that truck!" It's that easy to spot with the fatter tires exagerating the effect as they are easier to see and closer to the fenders. Poorly designed IFS crammed into tight little trucks will have more bumpsteer than something that has the room for a better IFS design like a larger GMC 2500.

A hard hit can move the suspension at lightning speed, causeing a sharp hard tug on the tie rod. Very easy to break. You'll notice that race trucks use huge Hiem joints, as big as what we'd use on suspension arms, for tie rod ends.

Live axle trucks don't have this problem, because the suspension deosn't move serperately of the tie rods. They're all bolted to the same wagon axle, all moving together. Dodges problems with live axle truck tie rods is from stinky small parts QC. A Ford with nearly the same axle design has hardly a problem.

Generally, when a tie rod snaps, the wheel will flop out all the way and drag, your remaining good wheel will still be able to steer the truck as that broken wheel is flopped out and skidding/sliding with little grip, just a flurry of smoke. Scary and potentially worse than a bent frame. But still may not wreck a long wheel base truck. Ford and GM have actually tested such failures and adjusted thier designs. Off road is a different story, falling into a rut or soft spot while dragging that tire at speed could be very, very bad.

Happens all the time in F1 car wrecks. The loose tire toes out and drags.

No kittens were harmed in the formation of this post.

Yep, I know all too well about what you are talking about. I live an hour from Ocotillo Wells, 2 hours from Glamis, 3 hours from Dumont and 4 from Pismo...

I have always been into the desert and built my own long travel truck out of a Chevy 1500 using Hiems up front that cycled 18 inches, and 20+ in the rear with a full 4 link setup and 3" Racerunner shocks. (and 4 bolt carbed 350 with Comp cam.. etc, ohhh what fun that truck was)

 

[babybluebeast]

i think the raptor and the power wagon are both great products, and i am a chevy guy. my fear is a bunch of dumb *** rednecks out abusing their trucks are going to cause these vehicles to go out of production and the GMC All Terrain to never make it into production.

performance trucks are finally what they should be, not gay low riders for drag racing mustangs and a bunch of idiots are about to ruin it.

 

[KaiserM715]

i think the raptor and the power wagon are both great products, and i am a chevy guy. my fear is a bunch of dumb *** rednecks out abusing their trucks are going to cause these vehicles to go out of production and the GMC All Terrain to never make it into production.

I have a Raptor, but I also hope the GMC Terrain makes it into production. Having several competitive options to choose from is a big win for consumers and it is nice to have more off-road capable options.

 

[chilliwak]

My tie rod comment wasn't aimed at Dodges, although I guess they break tie rods too.
It was aimed at all the GM trucks (silverados, H2s...) with weak tie rods that buckle during off road use. (youtube it...)

Id rather have a frame bend at 125 mph off road than any tie rod break. One is deadly, the other (in the Raptors case) is very much not.. especially considering they do not even notice when it happens.

Every truck has weak points. My point is that if you buy a new rig, and are aware of their weak points, you can fix them right away. Buy a new truck and go for some new heavy-duty aftermarket tie rod ends right away. Kind of difficult to change the frame of your new rig. I have found that tie-rods are easier to replace....:Wow1:

 

[lllateralus]

Every truck has weak points. My point is that if you buy a new rig, and are aware of their weak points, you can fix them right away. Buy a new truck and go for some new heavy-duty aftermarket tie rod ends right away. Kind of difficult to change the frame of your new rig. I have found that tie-rods are easier to replace....:Wow1:

Weak tie rods were not known until people started using the truck and found a weak point.

The same applies here. Buy a new Raptor, and gusset the frame where needed. I don't see the difference.

 

[bob91yj]

You guys are too funny, Jeep produces the Rubicon, people that have never driven a locked Jeep start popping front axle u-joints, immediately the web wheelers proclaim the front axles in Rubicons are junk. I witnessed some of this front axle carnage on "The Slabs" at the Loon Lake trail head on the Rubicon itself. New guy had his front wheels cranked hard over making a u-turn on flat granite, low range and locked, he got on the throttle a bit too much and popped a u-joint/axle yoke. Driver error. Learn to drive within the vehicles limits or upgrade the best out of the box Jeep ever made to meet your needs.

Hucking a Raptor because you saw it on a TV commercial and then calling the truck junk because the frame bent, is still driver error IMO. Surely there is video of how some of this carnage ocurred, turn it in to your insurance company along with the video and the commercial, see how that works out for you!

At some point, the people in this country need to take responsibility for their own actions, but that's another conversation for another day.

 

[Patman]

I tend to agree that as more info regarding the specific failures comes to light about this, the less of an issue it really is.

However if you step away and just look at it from an engineering standpoint, "beefing up" everything to the point that longitudinal frame strength is the weak point, is pretty weak.

Hard to believe there aren't a few of the bent frames at the Dearborne proving grounds.